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Back to Basics with Atkins' Original
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Terranova
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Back to Basics with Atkins' Original  Reply with quote

Thought I'd share some of the good doctor's wisdom from his original book. He got a lot right.

"We're the victim of carbohydrate poisoning" pg 5

"Many of today's diseases have one predisposing factor in common: Carbohydrate Intolerance. Over the years a large number of doctors and researchers have observed that the overweight person, the diabetic, the hypoglycemic... the heart attack prone all have one thing in common: something is very wrong with the way their bodies handle sugar and other carbohydrates." pg 4

*** Maybe something is very right with their bodies. If most of the popuation is affected by these diseases, and I think I can say with confidence they are, then maybe carbohydrates are killing us.***

"Removing carbohydrates from the diet is the most permanently effective treatment for obesity." pg 7

"So this is an anticarbohydrate diet" pg 7

"...Duncan's Diseases of Metabolism, the testbook that is virtually a bible for doctors in the field, writes: "... no carbohydrate is required in the diet.... it has been shown experimentally that human beings can survive in good heath for months on a diet of meat and fats." pg 6

"As long as you don't eat carbohydrates, you can eat all you want of "fattening" foods {ie fat] and not put a single ounce of fat on you." pg 15

***How many times has Bear written this?***

"You see, by cutting your carbohydrates down to zero, you have summoned a powerful genie to your aid- a substance put out by the pituitary gland called the Fat Metaboling Hormone (FMH)... " pg 15

"And the production of FMH is the whole purpose of this diet- and the reason it works when other diets fail" pg 16

"NO CARBOHYDRATES ALSO MEANS NO HUNGER!" pg 23

"By trial and error, I found as time when on that I could have up to 35-40 grams of *carbohydrate and still lose without hunger, if I added them gradually enough." pg 24

*Those were hard carbs - not carb minus fiber. The good doctor didn't think much of fiber back then- he accused it of irritating the bowel-- sound familiar?**

"... once you understand what carbohydrates do to you, they become in your own mind, the enemy. You not only don't want them, you feel downright hostility for them." pg 46

"...Only with drastically reduced carbohydrate intake do we see the benefits of carbohydrate restriction: the sense of well-being, the loss of hunger and of pounds and inches.
What do I mean by "drastically reduced"? I mean an intake of well below 40 grams of carbohydrate a day. That's the upper limit. That's where most of you will end your diet and begin your maintenance. Where you start the diet, of course, is with a daily intake of zero carbohydrates. Altho we allow a salad from the start, and lettuce does have carbohydrates, the amount it containes is so minute as to be biolgically the equivilent of zero. " pg 102

"Those salads make all the difference in the world between a diet that is aesthetic, appetizing, human and one that's an uncilvilized drag."

***LOL nothing about an actual nutritional NEED for them- just the good doctor's acculturation showing! pg 134

"The Diet Revoution No-Nos (this is by no means a complete list)
[a list of vegetation] For you they're poison-- dont forget it! pg 140

***I promise not to (((Dr. Atkins)))**

On Maintenance:
"The best decision is probably to stay pretty much on the very low carbohydrate diet on which you lost" pg 263
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny how things change when they become commercialized, huh? I was watching Diet Doctor on FitTV about Atkins, and I got so irritated I had to turn it off. The woman hosting it basically turned it to SB.

Thanks for posting this. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only he had stuck to his guns!

A two week "induction" phase? Please! That's not nearly enough time for the body to adjust! SD Phinney's research (and my personal experience) indicates that at least 3-4 weeks are required before ketosis feels right and performance is back to where (or better than) it was before.

Thank you, Terra, for the great post from Planet Reality. Too bad "that other forum" doesn't visit there more often.

Robert
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldDoc2B wrote:
If only he had stuck to his guns!

A two week "induction" phase? Please! That's not nearly enough time for the body to adjust! SD Phinney's research (and my personal experience) indicates that at least 3-4 weeks are required before ketosis feels right and performance is back to where (or better than) it was before.

Thank you, Terra, for the great post from Planet Reality. Too bad "that other forum" doesn't visit there more often.

Robert


I'm glad you enjoyed it. Smile

If only he had stuck to his guns... well, I still hate sell-outs but to be fair I'll post:

Selling Out

Selling out
is easy to do.
It's not so hard
to find a buyer for you.
When money talks,
you're under its spell.
Ah, but whaddya have when there's nothing left to sell?

Selling out (I'd rather call it compromise)
is easy to do (sometimes you have to close your eyes).
It's not so hard (being rich is no disgrace)
to find a buyer for you (put on your shoes and join the race).
When money talks (it has a very soothing voice)
you're under its spell (it's up to you to make the choice).
Ah, but whaddya have when there's nothing left to sell?
(Before you know it there'll be nothing left to sell.)

You can't always break the rules.
People who try are fools.
When you get older, maybe then you will see.
I've always found ideals
don't take the place of meals.
And that's how it is and how it will always be.

It's so nice to have integrity,
I'll tell you why.
If you really have integrity,
it means your price is very high.
So remember when you start to preach and moralize,
that we all are in the game, and brother its name is compromise.

-- Tom Lehrer
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranova wrote:
OldDoc2B wrote:
If only he had stuck to his guns!

A two week "induction" phase? Please! That's not nearly enough time for the body to adjust! SD Phinney's research (and my personal experience) indicates that at least 3-4 weeks are required before ketosis feels right and performance is back to where (or better than) it was before.

Thank you, Terra, for the great post from Planet Reality. Too bad "that other forum" doesn't visit there more often.

Robert


I'm glad you enjoyed it. Smile

If only he had stuck to his guns... well, I still hate sell-outs but to be fair I'll post:

Selling Out

Selling out
is easy to do.
It's not so hard
to find a buyer for you.
When money talks,
you're under its spell.
Ah, but whaddya have when there's nothing left to sell?

Selling out (I'd rather call it compromise)
is easy to do (sometimes you have to close your eyes).
It's not so hard (being rich is no disgrace)
to find a buyer for you (put on your shoes and join the race).
When money talks (it has a very soothing voice)
you're under its spell (it's up to you to make the choice).
Ah, but whaddya have when there's nothing left to sell?
(Before you know it there'll be nothing left to sell.)

You can't always break the rules.
People who try are fools.
When you get older, maybe then you will see.
I've always found ideals
don't take the place of meals.
And that's how it is and how it will always be.

It's so nice to have integrity,
I'll tell you why.
If you really have integrity,
it means your price is very high.
So remember when you start to preach and moralize,
that we all are in the game, and brother its name is compromise.

-- Tom Lehrer


You should here how those other people are whining on that other board. WHAAA the media won't take us seriously WHAAA. The problem is is that they're so hard up for mainstream acceptance that they support plans that are not low carb. Eating 60gm of carbs may be low to you but it's not low enough to sustain weight loss. They're over there right now trying to convince themselves that Atkins was all about high veggies and smart meat choices. Lisa looked like an absolute fool so she had to delete 2 pages of exchanges with Terra. That's when she made the big post about how it was against the rules to debate diets, yet when I pointed that out that's when I got the boot too.

Get a grip people! The media doesn't like low-carb WHAA WHAAA WHAAAA. They sound like George $tella! Poor guy, I guess that home DVD business isn't going that well.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, don't get me wrong: Robert Atkins deserves a great deal of credit. Many, many people have benefitted from his work and he was successful at introducing the concept of the ketogenic diet to another generation of evolution-ignorant Americans. He reached many more people than the long-forgotten Blake Donaldson ever did, but saw the dollar and jumped. I can't judge him too harshly for that; his intentions may have been pure, for all I know.

Rob, the people on "that other forum" are the people Atkins was trying to reach at the end, but couldn't because there are inescapable biological truths involved in being human that they are not willing to accept.

These include (but are not limited to):

1. We evolved. Get over it.
2. We did #1 in a particular time and place with a particular food supply. It did not include a ready or regular supply of vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, dairy, eggs, legumes, tubers, etc. Get over it.
3. When we insist on eating those things from #2, we get overfat and unhealthy. Get over it.

Let those other folk do what they will. They will any way.

I'm glad you and your wife have found what works for you (and, for nearly everyone else, for that matter) and can look forward to healthier days ahead.

Robert
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You should here how those other people are whining on that other board. WHAAA the media won't take us seriously WHAAA. The problem is is that they're so hard up for mainstream acceptance that they support plans that are not low carb. Eating 60gm of carbs may be low to you but it's not low enough to sustain weight loss. They're over there right now trying to convince themselves that Atkins was all about high veggies and smart meat choices. Lisa looked like an absolute fool so she had to delete 2 pages of exchanges with Terra. That's when she made the big post about how it was against the rules to debate diets, yet when I pointed that out that's when I got the boot too.

Get a grip people! The media doesn't like low-carb WHAA WHAAA WHAAAA. They sound like George $tella! Poor guy, I guess that home DVD business isn't going that well.


I found the whole thing a bit humorous thanks to the fact that the person saying this was on SB. South Beach is barely a low carb diet IMO, but besides that, it's endorsed by Kraft Foods. I'm not quite sure why it's considered to be a LC plan, but it is one of the more accepted ones regardless.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post, Doctor Robert!

Alisa... South Beach is being pushed right now by lots of frustrated doctors! Main reason: it fits so nicely into the whole low fat propaganda that the medical community just cannot seem to let go of!
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Dean.

I would strongly encourage everyone who has not read Overdo$ed America, to do so as soon as possible. It provides a disturbing insight into why and how medical myths get perpetuated. It also reminds us that any system, including the much-celebrated capitalism, must first, last, and always serve people. It does us no good when it works the other way round.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bleublonde wrote:


I found the whole thing a bit humorous thanks to the fact that the person saying this was on SB. South Beach is barely a low carb diet IMO, but besides that, it's endorsed by Kraft Foods. I'm not quite sure why it's considered to be a LC plan, but it is one of the more accepted ones regardless.


On a side note, she is still the only SB dieter I've ever met that lost significant weight and has kept it off over a year. Where are all the other successful SB dieters to share the kudos? I'm sure there are more out there. Weight Watchers is successful, too. And what about Jenny Craig?

But I'll take this opportunity to praise her success once again. The fact that she was able to do it on THAT diet she derserves all the more credit. Yay Judy! If she's happy, so am I. Why is that so hard for her to believe?

It's just that it doesn't work for _me_. It's too carby.

And then I'm the depository of all manner of assault because I don't follow her norm. Damn me for daring to be different. Double damn me for doing what works for for me and sharing about it. oh ya I forgot--sharing is self-promotion...
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Bear disagreed with a lot of Atkins stuff he almost had a semi-posititive tone about Atkins original diet. Reading the 1972 version he's very militant, not in the complete Bear way, but it's clear that he didn't put veggies in as high esteem as they ALC wants to think he was.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Double damn me for doing what works for for me and sharing about it. oh ya I forgot--sharing is self-promotion...


Sharing positive experiences of what has work for you on a support forum?! What the hell were you thinking?! Roll Eyes

I'm so glad this forum is here... Happy
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldDoc2B wrote:
Please, don't get me wrong: Robert Atkins deserves a great deal of credit. Many, many people have benefitted from his work and he was successful at introducing the concept of the ketogenic diet to another generation of evolution-ignorant Americans. He reached many more people than the long-forgotten Blake Donaldson ever did, but saw the dollar and jumped. I can't judge him too harshly for that; his intentions may have been pure, for all I know.

Rob, the people on "that other forum" are the people Atkins was trying to reach at the end, but couldn't because there are inescapable biological truths involved in being human that they are not willing to accept.

These include (but are not limited to):

1. We evolved. Get over it.
2. We did #1 in a particular time and place with a particular food supply. It did not include a ready or regular supply of vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, dairy, eggs, legumes, tubers, etc. Get over it.
3. When we insist on eating those things from #2, we get overfat and unhealthy. Get over it.

Let those other folk do what they will. They will any way.

I'm glad you and your wife have found what works for you (and, for nearly everyone else, for that matter) and can look forward to healthier days ahead.

Robert


Totally agree, Doc. And thank you for your encouragement. It's much appreciated.

ALOHA!
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bleublonde wrote:
Quote:
Double damn me for doing what works for for me and sharing about it. oh ya I forgot--sharing is self-promotion...


Sharing positive experiences of what has work for you on a support forum?! What the hell were you thinking?! Roll Eyes

I'm so glad this forum is here... Happy


That's the problem. People like Lisa and FlunkyBear are more concerned with George $tella'$ profits than they are about supporting people. Thus anybody who doesn't publically admit their love of the sanctosact veggies are dead set on destroying all their "hard work" in making LC "respectable". Bad meat eaters, bad!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bleublonde wrote:

Sharing positive experiences of what has work for you on a support forum?! What the hell were you thinking?! Roll Eyes


I confess I was thinking I'd go over there to share and people might actually like me and want to be friends or if not, at least light weight sparing partners. I thought maybe I'd support my friend Bear in sharing his message. I thought the moderators were mature and fair. I thought I'd find compassion and comraderie there. I thought I might be able to help others. I thought I might make a few people chuckle now and then. I thought I might be able to support others. I thought someone might like my free recipes. I thought it was a safe place so I let myself be vulnerable.


Quote:

I'm so glad this forum is here... Happy


Me, too, Bleublonde.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only ended up on lowcarber because someone on a weightlifting forum linked to Bear's thread.

Bear's web page was my first exposure to the idea of a low carb diet(around 96.) I had never heard of Atkins at that point.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranova wrote:
I confess I was thinking I'd go over there to share and people might actually like me and want to be friends or if not, at least light weight sparing partners. I thought maybe I'd support my friend Bear in sharing his message. I thought the moderators were mature and fair. I thought I'd find compassion and comraderie there. I thought I might be able to help others. I thought I might make a few people chuckle now and then. I thought I might be able to support others. I thought someone might like my free recipes. I thought it was a safe place so I let myself be vulnerable.

And the ALC Forum Thought Police let you get away with that?!!!


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viking Dan wrote:
I only ended up on lowcarber because someone on a weightlifting forum linked to Bear's thread.

Bear's web page was my first exposure to the idea of a low carb diet(around 96.) I had never heard of Atkins at that point.


Cool! Me too. I first ran into Bear's site in October 1997, although I mostly chatted with him about the glaciation essay and then an interesting conversation on Egypt. I started asking questions about the diet in Jan 1998 and started it on the 24th I think.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldDoc2B wrote:
I would strongly encourage everyone who has not read Overdo$ed America, to do so as soon as possible. It provides a disturbing insight into why and how medical myths get perpetuated. It also reminds us that any system, including the much-celebrated capitalism, must first, last, and always serve people. It does us no good when it works the other way round.

I own that book, but haven't read it yet, I skimmed through but my husband took it.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heather wrote:
OldDoc2B wrote:
I would strongly encourage everyone who has not read Overdo$ed America, to do so as soon as possible. It provides a disturbing insight into why and how medical myths get perpetuated. It also reminds us that any system, including the much-celebrated capitalism, must first, last, and always serve people. It does us no good when it works the other way round.

I own that book, but haven't read it yet, I skimmed through but my husband took it.


I'll have to look for it. I like reading that kinda stuff, too.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And the ALC Forum Thought Police let you get away with that?!!!



Not for long... my evil plans were thwarted! Very Mad Evil Very Mad Evil
LOL Love the gifs!
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was thinking about all the ridicule and criticism Dr Atkins suffered for his dietary beliefs-- even over his death they squabbled. He went through a lot just to tell the truth.

Even if he did 'compromise' in the end.

Truth endures.

ALOHA!
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The starting post was great! Thanks Terra. I wonder what would happen if I quoted it in the other forums. Do you think I'd get booted? lol, I'm hanging in there because I like MYPLAN ;)
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meg... I hate to let you in on this... but you are next on the "Gestapo Hit List"! Laugh


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no! Not Meg too!
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranova wrote:
Was thinking about all the ridicule and criticism Dr Atkins suffered for his dietary beliefs-- even over his death they squabbled. He went through a lot just to tell the truth.

Even if he did 'compromise' in the end.

Truth endures.

ALOHA!


I got a copy of Strong Medicine by Blake Donaldson which advocates basically Meat and Water and Coffee. Kind of interesting.

He called it strong medicine because 1/3 of his patients couldn't hack it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viking Dan wrote:
Terranova wrote:
Was thinking about all the ridicule and criticism Dr Atkins suffered for his dietary beliefs-- even over his death they squabbled. He went through a lot just to tell the truth.

Even if he did 'compromise' in the end.

Truth endures.

ALOHA!


I got a copy of Strong Medicine by Blake Donaldson which advocates basically Meat and Water and Coffee. Kind of interesting.

He called it strong medicine because 1/3 of his patients couldn't hack it.


lol well, add cream and I'm there! One man's poison, is another's meat hehe, so to speak, lol.
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terra,

I actually bought the 1972 Atkins book only a month ago.

I must say that is my favourite yet. The 1972 one seems so direct and to the point.

This is why has really go me intrigued lately about the zero carbohydrate diet.
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LC_Dave wrote:
Terra,

I actually bought the 1972 Atkins book only a month ago.

I must say that is my favourite yet. The 1972 one seems so direct and to the point.

This is why has really go me intrigued lately about the zero carbohydrate diet.


I agree! I love his original book.

According to his book, he lost most of his weight on close to zero carb with some "experimenting" with hard carbs-- not carbs minus fiber. He considered 40 grams of hard carbs the "top end" of OWL- where most would end owl and begin maintenance. I don't think he envisioned maintenance to be more than 50 carbs a days-- with some wiggle room for real life or the occasional 'gratuitious mouthfulful', as Bear put it. We all reinforce our cultural bonds from time to time- be it with birthday cakes, new year's toasts or mom's apple pie.

Such is the life of a human carnivore, lol.

ALOHA!
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranova wrote:
LC_Dave wrote:
Terra,

I actually bought the 1972 Atkins book only a month ago.

I must say that is my favourite yet. The 1972 one seems so direct and to the point.

This is why has really go me intrigued lately about the zero carbohydrate diet.


I agree! I love his original book.

According to his book, he lost most of his weight on close to zero carb with some "experimenting" with hard carbs-- not carbs minus fiber. He considered 40 grams of hard carbs the "top end" of OWL- where most would end owl and begin maintenance. I don't think he envisioned maintenance to be more than 50 carbs a days-- with some wiggle room for real life or the occasional 'gratuitious mouthfulful', as Bear put it. We all reinforce our cultural bonds from time to time- be it with birthday cakes, new year's toasts or mom's apple pie.

Such is the life of a human carnivore, lol.

ALOHA!


I was reading that book this weekend and I have to say I have a newfound appreciation, although I can see why Bear called him a "diet wuss". In the end Atkins was on the right track but eventually gave in to the "good carbs" BS.

Terranova posted on the Bear thread early on that if you disagreed with Bear's basic premise you disagree with the whole premise of low carb and Atkins, and after reading 1972 Atkins, I can see that Terra's statement is 100% accurate. 1972 Atkins in comparison is militant in the eyes of people like Lisa and JudyNYC.

I think 1972 Atkins would have last 10 posts or less at the ALC Forum before being inundated with the whackiness of rollerskating turtles, fluffy bears and moaning lisas. Hell, Atkins probably cover 3-4 of even Bear's basic rules. In fact, I would venture to say, that 1972 Atkins cost Terra her account (unfortunately).

Trust us, if you can come across one of his early 1972 versions, and you like what Bear had to say, check it out.

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