| Archive for Active No-Carber Forums A veggie-free zone |
| Avalon |
Yay Nay B12!Warning: Naysaying ahead. Just trying to find my way
Well, I heard a good one tonight about B12. A simple idea. One I should have thought of. It may not be new, but it's new to me. You've heard the story that we as Humans may have evolved without the ability to make our own vitamin C because there was plenty in the diet already? No? Yes? Well, today someone said maybe we store B12 so well, and for so long, because it's not that important. A little goes a long way. Maybe going back to the idea that the longest lived cultures on the planet eat relatively less animal protein. Frak! Why does that make sense to me? If we didn't store it well, we'd need to keep up the supply- more urgently... Good night again, 
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| waywardsister |
Deficiency can happen in a year, or in a decade - it depends on how well your small bowel, etc is functioning. It's not just how much you take in and store, but how much you're actually using. So if grains etc have a negative effect on your GI tract (and many do interfere with absorption anyway) B12 function can be lessened and stores depleted.
Personally, I think the longest lived cultures don't eat crap like Pop Tarts and Froot Roll Ups and Wonder Bread, and that is a big help - as is living in smaller communities and all the other external factors that have an influence on our lives. I really don't think meat consumption is the tipping point. |
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| Avalon |
Good Morning 
God, I grew up on Pop Tarts and Sugar Pops and Captain Crunch and yodels!  Thank God they are not in my diet anymore, except when binging  What?
But the fact that it is stored at all, is a very interesting point. If we store it, one might believe(not assume  ) that we could say, go without it for a time.
I know, yada yada |
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| adwred |
WTF are yodels? | ||
| phoenix7 |
 Yodels are frosted, cream-filled cakes
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| Avalon |
Damn! I might have to buy some now, ehh I mean ehh, for the weekend
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| phoenix7 |
Oops, sorry  No you don't have to, you are much stronger now! 
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| adwred |
So like Swiss Rolls? | ||
| adwred |
I loved Billot Logs!! Although I haven't had one in about 15 years and they'd probably be disgusting to me, now.
http://www.canadiansweets.com/zcart/images/products/Billot-Log.jpg |
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| opticon107 |
Actually this is the best thing ever. A Sakura Mochi - a japanese dessert that is sweet glutinous rice cake filled with sweet adzuki bean paste. Perfection at its best. This is what most of my saturday carb up consists of. (if my stomach doesn't hate me for it, that is). |
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| Avalon |
Invasion of the Body Snatchers! 
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| the_individualist |
Re: Yay Nay B12!
I think you have a misunderstanding of how evolution works. First of all, we evolved from more herbivorous creatures. So, initially, it is plausible that our distant ancestors developed a conservative turnover rate of B12 in concordance with dietary patterns (since an increased turnover rate might be maladaptive with an herbivorous diet and so selected out). However, this conservative turnover rate is not detrimental in any way to consuming an increased B12 diet (i.e. more meat). Thus, simply adopting a more carnivorous diet will not pressure a population to start evolving increased B12 excretion rates. In other words, B12 turnover rate is irrelevant as an indicator of how carnivorous we "should" be, because a carnivorous diet will not directly put any evolutionary pressure on this. If a future mutation increased B12 turnover rates in a carnivorous population, then yes the vitamin would need to be replaced regularly by animal foods (it would become a dietary requirement). And this would be in concordance with a carnivorous diet. But the carnivorous diet itself would not cause this mutation. The loss of the ability to produce vitamin C was not a response to diet (it was not "because" of diet, in other words). It was an independent mutation. Either type of diet (herbivorous or carnivorous) supplies vitamin C, so the loss of an ability to produce it did not have any detrimental effects. Evolution is not "smart" or purposive. It is a blind, brute process. An animal will not evolve increased B12 excretion rates just because it starts eating meat- if its genetic code still programs for a slower B12 turnover rate, then, regardless of diet, that is what will occur. Diet may act as a selecting factor once mutations in this code arise, but diet does not stimulate the mutations itself. |
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| Avalon |
Dear Individualist,
How have you been? Though I am tempted to address your post's many illuminations, it's so dark in here I can't make out the computer screen so perhaps over the weekend, Sunday night, after a few drinks I'll re-visit what I believe to be, your misunderstandings. It is good to see you again. It's too bad we can't all gather in a pub some where and discuss mutations, evolution, itelligent design and how they really make Silly Putty 
Best wishes, Avalon
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