paleogirl
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What do you tell people?I have a few well-meaning yet clueless friends constantly on my a** about my way of eating. People who think we need vegetables. People who aren't interested in hearing about the difference between grass-fed meat and cheap supermarket meat.
They don't seem to take into account the fact that I am actually WAY, WAY healthier and happier than them, have 'perfect' cholesterol levels, etc. They act like it's just a matter of time until all this meat eating catches up with me. I have zero mood swings, a ton of energy, pretty damn fast recovery times, etc. But they think that's just how I am, which is untrue, they just didn't know me before I ate this way. They never saw me bloated, hypoglycemic, acne-ridden, depressed, irritable, exhausted... and that was even after going gluten-free, let's not even get into what a total mess I was before that! 
My REAL good friends just let me get on with it, but a couple of them are (so they think) health conscious, not-much-meat types, and they are the lecturing ones.
So anyway, I'm presuming you have experienced similar. What do you say? I've talked about good fats, the evils of sugar, how ALL carbs are processed as sugar in the body, etc. etc. None of it seems to stick.
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jl53563
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I tend to be very vague, not getting into specifics. I might say something like "I don't eat processed, refined, sugary foods or starches." They think that sounds very healthy. 
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paleogirl
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I think I phrased my question badly - I meant more like, what do you say to defend yourself if they try to argue about the lack of fruit/veg? And to a lesser extent, the amount of meat (because for most people the 'eat less red meat' mantra actually sank in, sadly...)
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ReddyMcMeaty
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IF it really comes down to it, and I tend to completely avoid food discussions since my beliefs changed from low carb with lots of vegetables to nix the greens, I just admit to not knowing whether I'll live to 70 or 100 but I'd FAR FAR prefer to take a shorter lifespan, if it is even necessary, and live a physically strong and vibrant life instead of one where I'm frail and deteriorating and a physical waste for the last 50 years of it. Some people don't seem to really be into their bodies.. and it always amazes me how people can be so disconnected from the pleasure that a body brings. To me the body is one of the most important things in life. Crappy feeling body = crappy life. Period. Crappy mind/emotions = crappy body. My husband who is one of the green pushers because I haven't bothered to educate him (he was converted to the health of low carb and red meat a while ago yay) actually agreed with me on this one and has stopped bugging me about eating my vegetables.
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jl53563
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| paleogirl wrote: | | I think I phrased my question badly - I meant more like, what do you say to defend yourself if they try to argue about the lack of fruit/veg? And to a lesser extent, the amount of meat (because for most people the 'eat less red meat' mantra actually sank in, sadly...) |
I avoid those conversations at all costs. If an agrument ensues, they are generally unwinnable. They "know" that large amounts of meat are bad, and that large amounts of fruit, veggies, and grains are good. Once somebody "knows" something, it's almost impossible to change their mind. For me, it's not worth the effort.
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adwred
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I tell them that I (and many others) react badly to common chemicals in veg and fruit (salicylates and amines) and I break out in a rash from everything but peeled pears, which I don't much care for (which is entirely true). So even if I wanted to eat vegetables, I couldn't.
When they ask where I get my vitamins, I say meat and eggs contains all the nutrients the body needs and that in the absence of 'processed carbs', the body's nutrient requirements go way down. Then I tell them about the Stefansson/Andersen experiment and remind them of the Inuit. Then that gets them all into a conversation about how processed food is bad and usually takes the heat off me. This tends to only work with people outside of the nutrition industry, though. Since I'm a food professional, they assume that I will be able to rebutt any factoids they spew forth. The dietitians I work with, however, are a different story and I don't share this part of my life with them. Jeff, you're right about them 'knowing' things and it being impossible to explain things to people like that.
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Scout Finch
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Yep, you're not going to convince anybody of anything if you get into a conversation about it. I agree. It's not worth the effort. Maybe it's an age thing, but chocolate christ on a pogo stick, I'm 48, and I'm just not in the mood anymore to try and make anybody "see the light" on the diet thing. LIfe's too short. People are going to do what they want. Like Jeff said, they already "know" everything. No point in going there.
The only reason I'd get into a conversation about my diet is if somebody noticed enough to ask. Then I might have a very brief discussion about it and just say, "Yeah, I only eat animal products. Seems to work." And see how they handle it. And the few times it's gone into more detail about the "you'll die without veggies" thing, I always say, "Sounds like it works for you - that's great!" That's all I've got to say about it.
It's too far out of the mainstream, and the sooner you realize that, the easier your life will be. I also happen to be a Communist, so you can imagine how far out of the mainstream I am politically. You get used to it after a while.
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jl53563
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| Quote: | | but chocolate christ on a pogo stick, |
Where did you learn that? I've never heard that before.
| Quote: | | I'm 48, and I'm just not in the mood anymore to try and make anybody "see the light" on the diet thing |
.
You're 48? Is your avatar a recent picture? No kidding, you look about 10 years younger than that.
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paleogirl
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Scout, what you said rang true to me today. I visited one of the friends who is the (so she thinks) health conscious type, and I noticed new wrinkles on her face. I had this sudden overwhleming (and rather awful!) feeling that I liked having the edge over everyone with my 'secret' diet... I feel like it gives me special powers or something. 
Of course, for my loved ones, my aim is still to share the secret, and get them to eat a low sugar Paleo diet, but for the rest of these know-it-all's, I say let them eat cake! 
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Peter_UofIllinois
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I visited my parents for a few days in March, so I had to explain to them why I eat the way I do (meat and water). My Mom isn't concerned so much about zero carbohydrates as she is about the possibility that long term I will develop a vitamin/mineral deficiency. To ease her mind, I told her that I will take a multivitamin. In reality, though, I don't take any supplements whatsoever; I've never felt better since I gave them up entirely!
On a different note, I've politely explained to several of my close friends who used to be near-vegetarians the benefits of eating meat. The result is that they've added more meat to their diet. They've told me that they are feeling better as a result, specifically more satisfied after eating and not so sleepy in the afternoon. However, they still eat plenty of carbs, but hey, they're taking a step in the right direction.
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | You're 48? Is your avatar a recent picture? No kidding, you look about 10 years younger than that. |
Keep talking, honey. Keep talking. I love it!
Thanks, Jeff. Yes, the avatar (of me, not the container ship run aground) is about 3 weeks old. I'll put it back up in a bit. It's the nicest recent picture I could find of myself, although it looks a bit formal (it was taken at a pre-opera party).
The ship in the photo ran aground in January off the U.K., although I now don't recall how many containers they lost (It was quite a few.) I'm a naval architect and design container ships/oil drilling platforms. I'll post some interesting photos I pull off Google or in my archives as I find them.
I wouldn't want anybody here to fall short in their container ship/oil drilling platform educations!
Thanks for the great compliment! You made my week! 
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jl53563
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You're welcome. Now get your picture back up there!!!
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Scout Finch
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| jl53563 wrote: | | You're welcome. Now get your picture back up there!!! |
(stalks jeff)
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adwred
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You have amazing hair, Scout. Makes me want to grown mine out. Although I have no patience for that. And yeah, you definitely look about 10 years younger than you are. Amazing what a good diet will do for your skin, eh?!
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Scout Finch
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Red, thanks. I've got a great hair colorist, so I can't take credit for the hair. Except its bigness, and that's genetic, so still can't take credit! I might cut it for the summer, not too short, just have about 3 inches taken off the bottom. It grows fast, so it'll be back to being fluffy (and contrarian!) for the fall. I would actually love to have it permed to even out all the waviness, but my hair lady said I'd turn out like Rosanne Rosannadanna with an electrical shock.  So no perms. 
I have had more compliments on my skin since being carnivore. I think a high-fat diet smooths out what wrinkles I have, and it seems like I may not be developing as many wrinkles, although I can't really say. I try to run in the early mornings in the dark, which I think has preserved my skin and kept me from getting sun damage.
Hey, is that your natural hair color? Me likey.
Say hi to your pussy for me.
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adwred
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| Quote: | | my hair lady said I'd turn out like Rosanne Rosannadanna with an electrical shock. So no perms. |
| Quote: | | I try to run in the early mornings in the dark, which I think has preserved my skin and kept me from getting sun damage. |
This is also a good technique for getting attacked by a mugger!
| Quote: | Hey, is that your natural hair color? Me likey.
Say hi to your pussy for me. |
Yeah, my hair is naturally Little-Orphan-Annie curly red, but is slowly auburn-ing as I age. My avatar is really dark, but I think I've had other photos in the past that show my hair in better light. I hated it as a kid, but I'm growing into it now.
I'll definitely tell my pussy you said hello. She likes the attention. Whose pussy doesn't?!
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | This is also a good technique for getting attacked by a mugger! |
So true. Lots of runners out pre-dawn where I go, but still. I'm getting into the habit of carrying a cell phone, so I'm doing better.
My mom was a natural redhead, very dark auburn like yours. I'd like to go a little darker in my next colorings. I've colored it myself in the past much darker than my colorist goes, and I always get compliments on it.
How old are you, red, if you don't mind my asking. I thought I recall you saying 26? 27? I know you are much younger than me. I would say "don't get old," but it's better than the alternative! Plus there are advantages to getting older. No regrets. No regrets.
Except old eggs.  In your age range, you have very healthy eggs.
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jl53563
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| Quote: | | I'll definitely tell my pussy you said hello. She likes the attention. Whose pussy doesn't?! |
I suppose I'd get in trouble if I said something like that.
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jl53563
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| Quote: | | I have had more compliments on my skin since being carnivore. I think a high-fat diet smooths out what wrinkles I have, and it seems like I may not be developing as many wrinkles, although I can't really say. |
Bear said he figured that most of what we call aging is actually damage from insulin. I realize that insulin is inside our bodies, but perhaps it manifests itself somehow on the outside as well.
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Scout Finch
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I remember him saying that, Jeff. I think it had to do with collagen, like stretch marks were related to insulin damage. And maybe insulin somehow inhibits the health of the collagen, which is probably related to wrinkling and aging, although I wouldn't know the mechanism behind that. But yeah, I believe it. Insulin is too powerful a hormone.
I lurk on a couple of womens' forums (?fora), one is for over-40 women, and some of them complain about stretch marks. I have never jumped in and said "cut back on the carbs!" Although I probably should.
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | I suppose I'd get in trouble if I said something like that. |
Not with me.
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adwred
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| Scout Finch wrote: |
How old are you, red, if you don't mind my asking. I thought I recall you saying 26? 27? I know you are much younger than me. I would say "don't get old," but it's better than the alternative! Plus there are advantages to getting older. No regrets. No regrets.
Except old eggs. In your age range, you have very healthy eggs. |
I'll be 30 in october. Eeek! 
My eggs may (or may not) be healthy, but I have no desire to put them to work. I think someone forgot to wind my biological clock. Although these days, you can forget about that sort of thing until your mid-thirties and no one seems to object. My mum didn't have me until she was 35 and she was sure I was going to have Downs Syndrome because she was 'so old'. But, I may just be one of those people who decides not to procreate. Right now I feel OK with that, but ya never know what the next 5 years will bring. Don't tell BF's mother. She's banking on grandchildren real soonlike. 
You may still be able to have kids if you really want them. You can certainly adopt.
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adwred
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| Scout Finch wrote: |
I lurk on a couple of womens' forums (?fora), one is for over-40 women, and some of them complain about stretch marks. I have never jumped in and said "cut back on the carbs!" Although I probably should. |
Problem is, once you have the stretch marks, you have them forever! God I wish my parents had known about carbs...
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | You may still be able to have kids if you really want them. You can certainly adopt |
Well, at 48, I think we really are getting into Down syndrome territory, or 3 heads and 5 arms, or something strange. Especially if the father is older (because sperm ages also, I believe).
Like you, I spent years without a birthing gene. I just wasn't interested in having kids. I'm fine not having any kids, although interestingly, the last couple of men I've dated haven't had kids, and they've said shit like, "you know, we could just keep trying until it takes." And these guys are older, these days I'm dating mid- to late 50s guys (Christ, "mid-50's" isn't even that much older tham me), and it makes me cringe to think of all the damaged eggies and fishies conjoining and turning into some 5-headed 3-winged 7-antennae horse-tailed thing. You read about these women in their 50s having kids and...I don't know, sometimes it's cringe-worthy to me. Whatever floats your boat, though.
Hey, as long as one of those five heads gets the good hair and the Russian eyebrows, who cares?!
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | once you have the stretch marks, you have them forever |
Red, I don't know if you lurk on the low-carb forum, but there's a chick over there (I believe she is around my age, or a little older, in her sig line she says she is menopausal ) who swears by the "Fat Flush" plan. She says the author recommends this brushing technique ?? where you stand in the shower and "brush" your skin so many times a day, and I thought I read where she definitely improved the look of or "disappeared" her stretch marks, or some such thing. The next time I see her post, I'll link her over here.
At any rate, maybe Fat Flush is at your library or you can just buy the skin brush thing on amazon or something. Might be worth looking into. Or maybe someone else around here has experience with it.
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adwred
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Yes please! I would appreciate that. My stretchies are pretty faded now, but anything to minimize their appearance is welcome. What I'd really like is a cellulite cure. I'm working out now and doing HIIT running, so maybe that will help tone up the old thunder thighs.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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Please post the link omg.
I've actually had some success in the past with dry brushing. My skin is natrually very soft, texturewise, but brushing made it unreal. It also firmed up some parts which were kind of loose from my initial weight loss. Breasts included..that was cool. I was also in my early twenties though and pre-baby hahah. There is nothing that will actually get rid of the stretchmarks (that sounds too light of a word for what I have, thanks genetic) but I will be seeking to minimize their appearance as much as possible.
I agree that insulin is a factor but still think the biggest one is genetics.. I do have other examples but the biggest is a friend of mine who has three children. She has mild insulin probs - it's too high generally, and lives on high carb low fat things. She did while pregnant too and after her three kids has a perfectly flat, perfectly tight (magazine quality) and absolutely unblemished belly. Even her bellybutton is undamaged. I am not going to describe my belly skin but I'm traumatized by it and the fact that it is irreparable. Seriously.
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adwred
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There are cures for that.
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Avalon
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Reddy wrote:
| Quote: | | I agree that insulin is a factor but still think the biggest one is genetics.. |
Sadly I now agree. That and smoking I think. My Mother is a living prune. I don't think my Brother or Sister will be, but I think I will be. I used to think that I was aging better than others until last year when my face started crackling... I keep thinking that if I can lose enough weigh before I get too old, the skin will have to tighten up! Also don't smile! Or laugh. You'll stretch out your skin too much. I should have been more serious.
This is why I will invent an anime character for me. I'll bleach my hair white, design a costume and make a movie 
Scout you do look terrific! And an architect! Beautiful, Smart and a Carnivore!
Unfortunately my eggs are litle nano-thingies, and are not very friendly. Never mind 
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jl53563
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| Scout Finch wrote: | | Quote: | | I suppose I'd get in trouble if I said something like that. |
Not with me. |
Allrighty then........
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ReddyMcMeaty
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| Avalon wrote: | | .... Also don't smile! Or laugh. You'll stretch out your skin too much. I should have been more serious.... |
Sadly there might be something to that... my mother's face rarely changes expression. She's not a very happy person, and absolutely does not express emotion if at all possible. Her facial skin is beautiful though, she's got a little of the skin damage that goes with very fair skin (some light freckles etc) but there is barely a line in it at 45... and that is not genetics. Fair skin ages pretty quickly and her younger sisters who are more expressive have a lot more lines. I have some upper nose wrinkle lines and a couple around my mouth from laughing.. I laugh and smile too much for my face's own good. My younger sister has deep groves on her forehead from lifting her eyebrows! Luckily my husband thinks that crows feet on cheerful women are pretty.
So about your nano thingies......
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adwred
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I'd rather laugh and look old than look young and emotionless. I have some crows feet and I'm not quite thirty yet. A smile goes a lot further to make you look beautiful than smooth skin does, IMO. And fuck anyone who has a problem with it!
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Scout Finch
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| adwred wrote: | | I'd rather laugh and look old than look young and emotionless. I have some crows feet and I'm not quite thirty yet. A smile goes a lot further to make you look beautiful than smooth skin does, IMO. And fuck anyone who has a problem with it! |
Yep. Aging is better than the alternative. Hell, I feel like I'm just getting started. It's really cool to be the healthiest I've ever been, even when I was super-active in my 20s and early 30s, I still didn't feel as good as I feel now.
I've always been of the opinion that "what you see is what you get. You don't like it - tough!" It's a package - attitude, personality, physicality - it's a package. Wrinkles are the least of it. Really. If the worst thing I have to worry about is wrinkles (that are entirely natural due to aging!), then I'd say I've got a pretty awesome life.
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jl53563
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| Quote: | | Yep. Aging is better than the alternative. Hell, I feel like I'm just getting started. It's really cool to be the healthiest I've ever been, even when I was super-active in my 20s and early 30s, I still didn't feel as good as I feel now. |
Same here. I'll be 50 in 3 years, and I know I'll be in the best shape of my life. It's awesome!!
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Quote: | | So anyway, I'm presuming you have experienced similar. What do you say? |
I find that "Mind your own goddamn business" works pretty well most times.
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | I find that "Mind your own goddamn business" works pretty well most times. |
That it does, simian. That it does.
My food choices were "attacked" in the supermarket this past week. The two people in line behind me were discussing the political incorrectness of meat, environmental degradation due to raising meat, and the old "heart attack on a plate" line. It was all within earshot, which I'm sure was their intent. I noticed they had vegan shit on the checkout line like soy milk, produce, bread, etc.
I didn't respond to these morons since it's not worth the energy to do so, but has anybody else ever experienced anything like this? Y'know, I love my city. I do. I was born and raised here. But San Francisco has to be the most goddamned politically correct place on the planet, and sometimes it really bothers me. What's ironic about acknowledging this is that I am probably further to the left politically than anybody I've ever run across (except Hugo Chavez, but I haven't met him. Yet.)
It was a backhanded way of proselytizing, and the "PC" people do it as much as the non-PC people. It's really annoying.
/end of rant
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ReddyMcMeaty
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Yep.. I've experienced it. Every job I've worked, although because I generally work with all men they like me for it because it's what they want to eat but are being browbeaten into eating it less, or less often than they'd like. I've induced crushes with my free love for bacon, grease and rare steak The worst was when I went to massage school... man what bunch of...well they thought they were being health conscious so I can't reeeeeeally blame them that their health education was wrong. What made it worse was that we had a very highly educated teacher who was vegan supposedly (but cheated all the time) and was constantly pushing his own meatless agenda. CONSTANTLY. I mentioned that I ate raw meat frequently and he said that if one is going to eat meat at all it should be raw. He got points for that even if his toupe did not match his hair and was often crooked. I had the heart attack on the plate comment several times from various people.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Scout Finch wrote: | | Quote: | | I find that "Mind your own goddamn business" works pretty well most times. |
That it does, simian. That it does.
My food choices were "attacked" in the supermarket this past week. The two people in line behind me were discussing the political incorrectness of meat, environmental degradation due to raising meat, and the old "heart attack on a plate" line. It was all within earshot, which I'm sure was their intent. I noticed they had vegan shit on the checkout line like soy milk, produce, bread, etc.
I didn't respond to these morons since it's not worth the energy to do so, but has anybody else ever experienced anything like this? Y'know, I love my city. I do. I was born and raised here. But San Francisco has to be the most goddamned politically correct place on the planet, and sometimes it really bothers me. What's ironic about acknowledging this is that I am probably further to the left politically than anybody I've ever run across (except Hugo Chavez, but I haven't met him. Yet.)
It was a backhanded way of proselytizing, and the "PC" people do it as much as the non-PC people. It's really annoying.
/end of rant |
Great rant.
Unfortunately, most people feel the need to have a soapbox to rant and pontificate from. The concept of "live and let live" is foreign to many. I'm not a strict carnivore and usually (but not always) include some vegetables in one meal per day and on weekends I am not always the most well-behaved when it comes to eating, lol...But who am I or anyone else to judge?
If someone is happy and healthy on their chosen path, then so be it. Shut your mouth and leave them alone.
That said, I don't usually get a ton of static about my diet. I work nights and rarely see the rest of humanity and the crew I am on is all guys and meat/fat is good to them. lmao
I have gotten into a few *ahem* debates online with holier than thous and know it alls, and usually that ends with me saying either "F*ck off" or "Mind your own goddamn business" because I don't have the time nor energy to devote to beating my head against a brick wall.
Well, usually I don't.
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regex_1
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I just tell people that I only eat meat and eggs. If any one argues I simply start throwing facts and contradictions to whatever they say and talk very fast as to not be interrupted.
I am very knowledgeable on low carb, for I have been researching and doing for a while. However I am new to the zero carb, but I have not had trouble yet. I am also a very large guy and not many people will argue with me.
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adwred
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| Scout Finch wrote: |
My food choices were "attacked" in the supermarket this past week. The two people in line behind me were discussing the political incorrectness of meat, environmental degradation due to raising meat, and the old "heart attack on a plate" line. It was all within earshot, which I'm sure was their intent. I noticed they had vegan shit on the checkout line like soy milk, produce, bread, etc.
/end of rant |
There's nothing you can really say to people like that, especially when they're not even brave enough to ask you about the food you're buying to your face, but to criticize it from afar. If you were to respond, they probably would have backed right off, considering the cowardly way they went about attacking you. What you should have done was say nothing, but pick up one of your ribeyes, walk up to them and take a big raw bite out it. After purchasing, of course... That would shut them up. And give them something to gossip about with all their vegan cronies. It probably would have been the most exciting part of their day.
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unintelligible
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These days, I really don't feel the need to justify my carnivorous diet to people.
I simply pretend to be a careless buffoon about my diet and tell people I "eat whatever I want".
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SaintAngerBH
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| adwred wrote: |
When they ask where I get my vitamins, I say meat and eggs contains all the nutrients the body needs and that in the absence of 'processed carbs', the body's nutrient requirements go way down. . |
Sorry to bring up an old post, but this is EXACTLY what I've been trying to tell all the people that are against my way of life. This is so true.
Like anti-oxidants. I'll bet you MOST of oxidative stress and free radical damage is done by high blood sugar and high insulin. Look how people degenerate when this happens. When you elminate some causes of free radical production, is this not the exact same effect as taking an anti-oxidant? You are doing one better really, you're not neutralizing free radicals...you're not producing near as much in the first place.
All these vitamin recommendations from the US government might not necessarily apply with our way of eating. But, this could be a bit of a conclusion jump.
Still though, I'm SICK of people telling me about the serious long-term health consequences of this diet. Ha. Tell that to Bear, the Inuit and Stefansson.
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