| Archive for Active No-Carber Forums A veggie-free zone |
| DaphneDescends |
What do I say in response to this???What do you say to people that say humans are meant to be omnivores because our teeth are flat in the back (like for grinding) or because our digestive tract is long (they say carnivores have short digestive tracts.)
(I'm not trying to be a naysayer at all, I'm just wondering because a couple of people have asked me, and I didn't really have an answer for them.) |
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| Puma |
Re: What do I say in response to this???
How are our rear teeth flat? Some people these days... The digestive system of a dog is practically the same length as ours...but that's an crappy way to say we're carnivore or herbivore either way. I'd say ignore them and continue doing what works for you. 
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| Avalon |
Hi Daphne!
Don't get me started, oh, too late 
What you said I believe. But obviously we do eat meat and there are so many questions regarding the health aspects that ehh... never mind... Anyway, this video I think is the best explanantion of the whole shebang. http://vsh.voip-info.org/Mills.html Best wishes, Avalon
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| the_individualist |
Re: What do I say in response to this???
What it comes down to is this: In a natural state, our primary source of food is animal products- and only animal products. Plant foods make opportunistic survival fodder, but humans are not well adapted to digesting wild plant foods in a raw, unprocessed state- let alone are humans adapted to making them a primary source of food. It is only with artificial Neolithic methods of food processing that plant material can be rendered as a primary source of food, and even then, the generally poor health of agricultural civilized populations bears testament to the price of this dietary aberration. I've written on this here: http://askesisphilosophyandcarniv...ple-argument-for-carnivorism.html With regards to our teeth: " A common appeal to the omnivorous state of humans is made using the structure of human teeth. Detractors of carnivorism claim that our teeth closely resemble those of an omnivore's, such as a pig's teeth. Nonetheless, carnivorists dispute this. Carnivorists often bring attention to the fact that tooth decay in humans is directly caused by the consumption of sugars and carbohydrates, found only in plant foods. This is because the bacteria in the mouth that metabolize these sugars produce acid as a waste product. This acid is what causes the decay of human teeth, which are not properly adapted to protecting the tooth structure from this acid. Pigs, on the other hand, generally do not experience tooth decay, even when eating plant foods. Pure carnivores consistently report that they experience no tooth decay or disease whatsoever, in spite of some of them claiming they never brush their teeth. This, carnivorists say, indicates that in spite of the superficial structure of human teeth, human dentition is not properly suited to consuming plant foods, especially those high in sugars. Some supporting evidence for this argument is found in the fact that human tooth decay was incredibly rare prior to the development of plant cultivation. In fact, it was only in the late Upper Paleolithic, the period of increasing plant consumption and cultivation, when human tooth decay began increasing. However, a point that weakens this argument is the empirical observation that dental decay has been observed in non-human primates, primarily chimpanzees. Some may say that what this indicates then is that primates in general are not well-adapted in dentition to consuming sugary food materials, such as fruit, including the more herbivorous primates. While this demonstrates the damaging nature of sugars and starches on primate dental health, and provides an indication of what we should NOT eat, in the negative sense, it is rather limited in proving anything in the positive sense- i.e., what we SHOULD eat. Thus, while this argument indicates we are not well adapted to consuming sugars and starches, it does not necessarily follow from this that humans are carnivorous in nature. With the limitations of the above argument in consideration, other carnivorists take a different route of evolutionary reasoning. These carnivorists generally regard the structure of our teeth as vestigial- a byproduct of our truly omnivorous days as earlier hominids. An incredibly overlooked factor in human evolution, especially when assessing diet, is the development of technology. With the development of tool making in hominids (fire-making, knives, spears, etc.), any evolutionary pressure on the development of hominids' teeth was largely negated, as teeth were no longer needed to tear apart, or otherwise render more chewable, meat and animal remains, since these functions were replaced by sharpened flint, fire and other technological adaptations. Further, carnivorists bring attention to the fact that one of the primary evolved functions of our teeth is in speech. If our teeth were to become more "carnivorous" in nature, speech, which is a central component of human existence and survival, would be more difficult, if not impossible in its current precision. Thus, carnivorists say this indicates that there was little evolutionary pressure to "evolve away" our omnivorous dentition, but sufficient evolutionary pressure to keep it the way it is. Therefore, it follows that the omnivorous structure of our dentition is not an accurate indicator of what human beings primarily ate, or should eat today, after the development of technology." http://askesisphilosophyandcarniv...0/carnivorism-brief-overview.html Basically, just tell people that the development of primitive stone technology rendered dental evolutionary pressures negated, and that while we can eat plants, they do not form a primary source of food without agricultural processing methods, and that our only primary source of food in a wild state is animal products; making us carnivores. |
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| Avalon |
Best wishes, Avalon
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| the_individualist |
That is the most pseudoscientific, falsely analogous, simplistic, generalizing and misleading thing I have ever seen. All of the standard bullshit arguments and rhetoric that vegetarian morons make the habit of using are sputtered and slathered all throughout this film. "Evidence"? This moron doesn't even know what constitutes "evidence". This Milton Mills has been thoroughly indoctrinated into the cult of modern nutrition, and, judging by his ignorant and misleading statements in the video, doesn't know shit about evolutionary biology or what it means to be a carnivore or herbivore. Are you seriously posting this? I cannot take this crap seriously. |
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| Avalon |
I think I did post it. ehh, Let me check, please hold...
... (pseudo elevator music playing) ... Hi, yeah, that was me. Damn good video! I must say. I do say. I have said and still say
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| adwred |
Daphne, my suggestion would be to not say anything. I am a big believer in keeping pretty quiet about my diet, as people really just won't get it. Don't bother telling people or trying to explain why it's better. You'll just end up tearing your hair out. YOu certainly don't have to hide it, but if anyone asks, I always just say 'I have a lot of food sensitivities and have to eat a very limited diet'. Which is absolutely true.
In trying to convince people that your diet is better than theirs (not that you've been doing that - but that's how people might take it) you'll only be met with defensiveness, anger and a hell of a lot of negative attention, for the most part. I don't help people anymore unless they're begging for my help. 
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| Avalon |
You know what? I swear I wasn't drinking when I linked to that video. But I do think I misunderstood your post Daphne. Maybe I just didn't read the tag line 
I see you weren't looking for that kind of response. I'm sorry. |
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| DaphneDescends |
Thanks for the responses everyone. The dog intestine and evolutionary history of our teeth are just the sort of thing I was looking for. 
I'm generally not going to tell anyone about my diet because I understand how controversial it is and that it's usually not worth it, but I have one friend who is very opened minded and likes to discuss all possibilities and new research that is happening with nutrition. She's no convert certainly, but she respects my way of eating and it's nice to bounce all this info off of someone who is not into carnivory. It actually stimulates me and helps me question things and search for more answers. We're both psych majors and love to get into scientific discussions, even if we don't always agree. 
"I have a lot of food sensitivities and have to eat a very limited diet". I'll have to remember this one if it ever comes up. 
Avalon: No worries.  It's still an interesting video and sort of relevant in the sense of getting to know what "the other side's" arguments are like. I don't ever want to censure myself from what someone's argument against mine is because well... that just leads to fundamentalism I think.
Doesn't mean I agree with what was in the video though! 
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| Avalon |
Peace offering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Aa_0OnEwXM&feature=related
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| DaphneDescends |
AHA! So humans really DO need vegetables. You have totally changed my mind about everything! *has seen the light* 
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| adwred |
Red  Daphne.
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| DaphneDescends |
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| Jennix |
I don't know what kind of teeth you have, but I certainly have teeth made for eating meat. Two carnivorous teeth on each side of the four middle teeth. They're quite sharp. And well, the rest of my teeth might not be as sharp but I can still eat steak with them. ;)
Besides, isn't it more the digestive system that we need to think about rather than the teeth, because it's quite accepted that humans have always had meat on their menu. |
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| IronMike87 |
the digestion question is easy. The actual length of the human colon is not overly relevant because digestion does not take place in the colon. The human colon is inactive. Digestion takes place entirely in the small intestine - carnivore trait. Our teeth are also of little importance. Digestion of meat is a chemical process not a mechanical one. | ||
| Nicola |
the fermentation of undigested carbs takes
place in the colon. The small intestine should always be sterile. Probiotics are not an answer, and could be a problem. The types of bacteria which live on plant fibre and undigested carbs, and those which putrefy undigested proteins in the colon require two distinctly different environments: One is acid and one is alkaline: the two types of bacteria cannot both thrive well together. Most people, eating a largely plant based diet have the fermentative bacteria in their colons. These produce the methane that is passed. The obnoxious smell of farts from people (and their pets) eating an inappropriate diet is caused by fermentative bacteria trying to cope with proteins and fats. The feces of all animals, whether herbivore or carnivore, do not have an offensive smell if they eat their natural diet. It is possible to eat some plant material without farting and/or producing a smell, but that amount is quite low. Say "one portion of fruit or vegetables a day". It is also important that any such plant material is cooked - and well cooked - to break down the plant cell walls, otherwise the cells' contents will also pass undigested throught the gut, add to the plant fibre and give the fermentative bacteria more food to work on. From Dr. Groves |
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| Avalon |
Hey look! The ANC LOGO!!!
http://wer1family.wordpress.com/2...5/are-you-human-stop-eating-meat/ what?
This from someone who is slurping Sour cream onion dip, Pickle(disgusting) Pringles and a beer for breakfast. Regarding the Pringles, don't waste your money. They do taste like pickles but yucky doo doo okay... |
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| adwred |
I haven't farted since Boxing Day! At least not in my waking hours. I can't account for unconcious farts.
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
the first time I read that I saw "the delicious smell of farts...."
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| adwred |
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| Benzito171 |
Animals that grind food with their teeth move their jaws sideways and their teeth are constantly regenerating to make up for being constantly ground away.As far as proportions and functions your internal organs are most similar to that of a feline. (hunting carnivore)We have evolved away from eating plant food as a primary. Thats why we no longer need or use our appendix. The function of the appendix if it still worked would be to store bacteria to release into the digestive tract that will break down cellulose fiber (plants). But we can no longer do this and most raw plant food is not even digestible to humans. People get appendicitis by eating vegetables. Pieces of undigested fiber get stuck in the opening to the appendix and there is no bacteria to digest it so your appendix becomes infected by the abrasions from the fiber being exposed to whatever else is in your digestive system. Then you just have it snipped out and you are fine because you didnt need it to begin with.
As further proof our direction in evolution many people are being born without any trace of an appendix, as opposed to the vestigial one that most people have. Also back to the teeth many people are being born without some or any of their wisdom teeth (supposed gringing teeth) so its pretty plain to see that we have evolved to eat meat long ago and our evolution is still playing catch up getting rid of the useless parts of our body that once aided in plant digestion. I was pretty disappointed to find out I only had 3 wisdom teeth. I waited so long for it to come out and my new dentist told me it wasnt even there. Then he tried to sell me on having the other 3 out. I said no and he kept going saying that they were prone to cavities and he even mentioned I would get vicodin to try and sell me. He doesnt know that I cant have cavities because I don't eat carbs. Plus I can get my own vicodin if need be but I never liked it. So I guess its nice to be part of the next step in evolution, my mother is missing the same wisdom tooth as me so its looking like a dominant trait. |
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