Archive for Active No-Carber Forums A veggie-free zone
 


       Active No-Carber Forums Forum Index -> The real human diet is a totally carnivorous one: The Support Forum
elenarose

The diarrhea has done me in

Since embarking on all meat WOE, I have had chronic diarrhea. It's now been THREE WEEKS and I still have chronic diarrhea. I am very worried because I feel so depleted and dehydrated. This isn't just loose stools, it's all water and lots of it. I think going for longer than 3 weeks is dangerous. I feel okay, I don't feel ill but I don't feel great and i've started showing deficiencies since everything is being flushed out. Also everytime I increase my fat content above 50-60% the diarrhea becomes MUCH worse. The weight is falling off me and i'm only 100 pounds (now less...). This is really bad.

I was healthy and happy on eating a small amount of fibre and carbs (10g/day). I don't want to, because I was looking forward to being keto adapted, but I have to throw in the towel.

Unless you can convince me otherwise.

Elena
anon

What percentage of your diet is fat? Too little fat can cause protein toxicity which can cause chronic diet. Also, candida die off, if it is truly candida, can last several weeks as well.
elenarose

Well at the moment i'm on 60% fat. I've been trying to increase the fat to 70-80% but the diarrhea becomes unbearable, feels like food poisoning. I have only been using animal fat (no dairy). I don't think it is protein toxicity.

Candida die off is feasable...but for three weeks this severe? I never even had candida symptoms.
ReddyMcMeaty

Honestly, and I'm SURE that more knowledgable and experienced people will disagree with me, but I don't see how 10 carbs total would really be an issue with ketoadapting. Eating purely animal products: cheese, cream, eggs, steak can bring you up to 7-10 carbs per day anyway so (to me) big deal. If you're healthy and happy..... there doesn't really seem to be a problem. I think that there is a huge difference between say 10 carbs and 50-100 carbs in terms of them being pathogenic. 10 is negligable, 50-100 while lower than the general population will probably cause problems.
elenarose

I've been thinking about it today and I think I am having a severe candida die off. Although I've never had yeasty symptoms, my sugar sensitvity is really high. So I have to stick with all meat to fight it... I don't enjoy the diet though, the high fat content tastes bad to me, without dairy. Maybe I could cope with a bit of butter but better not for now... *sigh* Just gotta think of it as medicine.
elenarose

Whilst I remember, when people talk about carbs, do they include the fibre level in total carbs? For example 100g avocado will have 8.5g total carb but 6.7g of that is indigestible fibre. Therefore the absorbed carb intake is only 1.8g? Is that right? Bonkers
ReddyMcMeaty

keep us updated!! I really hope it gets better for you soon
bubbaM

Elena, maybe you should look into the lose of potassium caused by diarrhea. Have to go to work, but just bring up that point.

Bubba
adwred

Personally, I count ALL carbs, to keep me accountable and to keep me from eating vegetables. Fibre may not have calories, but it's not completely innocuous.

You could try taking a calcium supplement - that might cork you up a bit Smile I know it does to me, if I don't take the right ratio of magnesium with it!

Red
LCforevah

Elena, where does your animal fat come from? Whether it's tallow or lard, throw it out and start over! Go to a reputable Mexican market and get some lard, "manteca" to replace what you were using. It could be that your supply may be contaminated. Another thing would be to go get solid coconut fat at an Asian market, or buy what you can get now at places like a health food or vitamin store--it's pricey, but continuous diarrhea is very dangerous. Perhaps switching from animal fat to coconut fat might make the difference.

I always use the Drs Eades as a source of information, and you could try their website, www.proteinpower.com, contact them, and see if they can refer you to a doctor in your area who is sympathetic to low carb. You really need to get this checked out without having to give up this WOE.
elenarose

I don't add extra animal fat, I buy my meat with tons of marbling and huge fat rinds. The UK is so fat phobic, all the fatty meat is dirt cheap. Laugh I was also consuming coconut oil but I stopped a few days ago because I thought it might be what is causing the problem.

I had a really bad episode last night which is what made me start this thread. But now I feel really good actually! A bit tired... I've been ill for about a year with sugar problems and coeliac problems. So now I truely believe this diet is cleansing me. I bought some Acidophillus probiotics today which I think will help.

Lots of potassium in meat thank god. But still... it is probably what is making me feel a bit depleted. Hmm...

Thanks for all the support guys, I know I would have abandoned this WOE ages ago if it weren't for your help.

Elena Comfort
adwred

The coconut oil was very likely the cause of the problem. It causes loose stools in many people, including moi. Even a couple of tablespoons in a day acts as a laxative for me.
Mike

elenarose wrote:
I was also consuming coconut oil but I stopped a few days ago because I thought it might be what is causing the problem.

Elena Comfort

If I eat more than a little bit of coconut oil (VCO) for more than 2 days I always get bloating, gas and yellow diarrhea and feel very very bad.

Bruce Fife & Co. think that this is all an DETOX and cleansing and yeast die off etc. But I doubt it.

Anyone else here with a dislike of coconut oil?

Mike

By the way: The fiber in whole coconut seems to be the worst fiber of all.
elenarose

The reason why coconut oil works so well, is that the lauric acid converts to monolaurin in the gut which is powerfully antibacterial. This is why it is so high in breast milk for babies. Yup
Max Thunder

Coconut oil is 45% lauric acid, and I read on wikipedia that "Lauric acid [is] slightly irritating to mucous membranes".

I think I'll stop using coconut oil completely. Maybe we'll find out that coconut oil is pure crap and that we should stick to animal food completely!

Bring the lard Yup .
elenarose

Yeah I think coconut oil should be used for medicine only. Mind you it's better at producing ketones than animals fats for lots of energy. Animal fats are processed far slower. You can just get MCT oil but i'm not sure how it's made.
Max Thunder

Saying that human milk is high in lauric acid is a lie made by many coconut oil pushers.

About 6% of the fat in human milk is lauric acid. Huge different vs. 45%.

I'm getting more convinced that coconut oil is irritating.
I've also heard of people using it on skin with bad results.

What's the point of an intestinal antimicrobial which by its irritating action, bring more undigested foods to the microbes?

Should we stop giving babies a milk high in saturated and monoinsaturated fats, like other animal fats, and give them canola oil?
elenarose

Quote:
What's the point of an intestinal antimicrobial which by its irritating action, bring more undigested foods to the microbes?

Should we stop giving babies a milk high in saturated and monoinsaturated fats, like other animal fats, and give them canola oil?


I don't understand... Bonkers
Quoldrix

Anyone else here with a dislike of coconut oil?

Mike

By the way: The fiber in whole coconut seems to be the worst fiber of all.[/quote]

I HATE the taste of virgin coconut oil, but I do like dry coconut cream and I eat alot of it daily with great results.
NikkiLC

I dont use any as i am allegic to all nuts
I stick with beef fat lamb fat and butter
bubbaM

The last time I ate coconut oil I got abdominal pains and diarrhea the following day. Because of reading so many good things about it, I keep wanting to try it again but can't make myself swallow it. I feel bad because not only was it expensive, but it also cost pretty much to have it mailed to me. I don't really know what to think about the coconut oil things, but I am not buying so much anymore all the hype about it. I just have to figure out a different use for the rest of my quart bottle. Maybe furniture polish.

Bubba
Max Thunder

elenarose wrote:
Quote:
What's the point of an intestinal antimicrobial which by its irritating action, bring more undigested foods to the microbes?

Should we stop giving babies a milk high in saturated and monoinsaturated fats, like other animal fats, and give them canola oil?


I don't understand... Bonkers


It was too different random point.

1) Coconut oil seems unuseful for intestinal microbial problems

2) We should give canola oil to babies so they grow with rotten teeth and extreme myopia. But well, at least, they won't have been fed nasty animal fat from the mother milk.
koch900

I recently began to eat coconut (oil & milk) as my main source of fat. I find that it doesn't slow me down like other saturated fats (butter, lard, tallow). When I eat some oil (usually mixed with Goya pure coconut milk), I feel a burst of energy within half-an-hour. It feels like it digests just as fast, but I am sure it takes longer.

Also, note that I have trouble digesting fats due to long-standing gall bladder issues, yet I am able to do well with the MCT's in coco oil.



Quote:
Coconut oil is 45% lauric acid, and I read on wikipedia that "Lauric acid [is] slightly irritating to mucous membranes".

I think I'll stop using coconut oil completely. Maybe we'll find out that coconut oil is pure crap and that we should stick to animal food completely!


If coconut oil is pure crap, than there are many cultures that have been using this crap for centuries in large quantities. I read in Fife's book that some Polynesian populations consumed 80% of the days calories in coconut oil/milk. Fife goes on to explain that these people eat about TEN tablespoons of coco oil a day!

I understand the skepticism due to reading the above. Anything that irritates my membranes should not come near my membranes!

But what about all of the positive research and the test of time? Coconut oil has been around a long time, and apparently, from the research, it does A LOT of really nifty things for our bodies.

For now, I mix coco oil with coco milk for a nice, thick, cream-like pick-me-up for sipping during the day. Most of my calories are now coming from this mixture.
TheBlitherer

koch900 wrote:

If coconut oil is pure crap, than there are many cultures that have been using this crap for centuries in large quantities.

Bread has been around for centuries too, but you're not going to start eating that are you? :-)

koch900 wrote:

For now, I mix coco oil with coco milk for a nice, thick, cream-like pick-me-up for sipping during the day. Most of my calories are now coming from this mixture.

Is that mixture low-carb enough for you to become keto-adapted?
anon

TheBlitherer wrote:
koch900 wrote:

If coconut oil is pure crap, than there are many cultures that have been using this crap for centuries in large quantities.

Bread has been around for centuries too, but you're not going to start eating that are you? :-)


The coconut hasd been around for more than 18 million years, I'm sure it has been consumed by humans since before we were technically humans.
Nana

Hi Elena,

this happened to me too. One night I had the worst diarrhea ever. Then I remembered that the day before I was out all day and had eaten very salty meat (salami, pate) without supplementing minerals. All the sodium and sweating probably caused an imbalance and I lost loads of potassium. One side effect of this is heavy diarrhea. After supplementing it went away.

Do you put lots of salt on your meat? Do you supplement minerals?

Good luck and don't give up!
Max Thunder

Maybe there is something wrong in the way the oil we get is extracted?

About coconut meat, one thing is sure, here in america (and probably in europe too?) all we get (say 99%) are the old hairy coconuts with an extremely hard meat extremely high in insoluble fibers, while in these tropical countries they get the young coconuts from which you can spoon the meat easily.


There can also be a matter of adaptation.

Or maybe the optimal digestive system has no problem dealing with it, but intestines of many of us, which have been damaged by huge amounts of carbs and microbial overgrowth, and a lack of fat, are more sensible to any kind of irritation.

But I'm not even sure that coconut oil really causes me problems...
koch900

Quote:
Is that mixture low-carb enough for you to become keto-adapted?


Hmm... keto-adaptation ... what a mystery it is. I believe that becoming keto-adapted means simply: you burn fat for fuel. It means that you don't experience the same knawing hunger as carb-eaters do. For me, I can eat up to 60g carbs and still get through the day burning fat for fuel (i.e. when I do an all-day hike in 100-degree weather without bringing food along). I think I'm keto-adapted in this sense.

Quote:

Bread has been around for centuries too, but you're not going to start eating that are you? :-)


The coconut hasd been around for more than 18 million years, I'm sure it has been consumed by humans since before we were technically humans.



I think geocarnivore makes a good rebuttal to your comment, TheBlitherer. Besides that, I benefit greatly from coconut oil/milk as I have difficulty digesting other fats. I had a dream last night about bread, in which I prepared a peanut butter and banana on toast breakfast for a friend. Just as in real life, I didn't even crave the bread one bit!

It's interesting to hear other poster's opinions on coco oil and how it has/has not worked for them.


Quote:
Maybe there is something wrong in the way the oil we get is extracted?

About coconut meat, one thing is sure, here in america (and probably in europe too?) all we get (say 99%) are the old hairy coconuts with an extremely hard meat extremely high in insoluble fibers, while in these tropical countries they get the young coconuts from which you can spoon the meat easily.


There can also be a matter of adaptation.

Or maybe the optimal digestive system has no problem dealing with it, but intestines of many of us, which have been damaged by huge amounts of carbs and microbial overgrowth, and a lack of fat, are more sensible to any kind of irritation


All very interesting points, Max. There are so many variables -- who knows what is "really" going on? Bonkers
brklx

Max Thunder wrote:
Maybe there is something wrong in the way the oil we get is extracted?

About coconut meat, one thing is sure, here in america (and probably in europe too?) all we get (say 99%) are the old hairy coconuts with an extremely hard meat extremely high in insoluble fibers, while in these tropical countries they get the young coconuts from which you can spoon the meat easily.


There can also be a matter of adaptation.

Or maybe the optimal digestive system has no problem dealing with it, but intestines of many of us, which have been damaged by huge amounts of carbs and microbial overgrowth, and a lack of fat, are more sensible to any kind of irritation.

But I'm not even sure that coconut oil really causes me problems...


Here in the Bay Area you can buy the young coconuts in Asian grocery stores. I cannot say that I care much for the taste. There is very little fat and the whole thing is kind of watery.
anon

[quote="Max Thunder"]About coconut meat, one thing is sure, here in america (and probably in europe too?) all we get (say 99%) are the old hairy coconuts with an extremely hard meat extremely high in insoluble fibers, while in these tropical countries they get the young coconuts from which you can spoon the meat easily.
[quote]

Having lived in Hawaii during my childhood, I had access to coconuts at all stages of ripeness, and this is not considered old or mature, they are simple ripe. Old/mature coconuts have a soft seed like thing that bloom on the inside that is absolutely delicios, but the meat is dried out to the point of it not being edible.

Having said that, almost all of the traditional methods of eating coconut involve some type of pressing, or processing to produce various types of coconut milks and creams, and this PROBABLY holds true for most cultures that relied on coconuts as a large source of their calories. The coconut was almost never eaten in form except by our probably very earliest ancestors(australopithecines) in some parts of africa. Also, coconut OIL was a common item made by coconut cultures as well, it was used as oil for fire and lamps Smile
LCforevah

Wow! The coconut suggestion seems to have sparked a wealth of reactions and information! I use coconut oil two or three times a week, and I'm not sensitive enough to tell if there's a huge difference for me between it and butter or other animal fats. I grew up in a family that relied heavily on lard, with an occasional use for coconut products, so maybe I've always been acclimated.

It's good to know that people can gauge their own bodies' reactions so well.
TheBlitherer

koch900 wrote:
Quote:
Is that mixture low-carb enough for you to become keto-adapted?


Hmm... keto-adaptation ... what a mystery it is. I believe that becoming keto-adapted means simply: you burn fat for fuel. It means that you don't experience the same knawing hunger as carb-eaters do. For me, I can eat up to 60g carbs and still get through the day burning fat for fuel (i.e. when I do an all-day hike in 100-degree weather without bringing food along). I think I'm keto-adapted in this sense.


Is it a mystery? If bear is to be believed then keto-adaptation means you have to produce ketones in the first place, and then use them at the sites in the body that normally use glucose. You cannot do that if there are glycogen stores in the liver. Bear of course advises no more than 5g a day carbs. You are a low-carber at that 60g, not a no-carber.
woof_woof

When I started to eat animal fats after being a vegan for a while I've had the very same problems (bloatness, diarrhoea, etc.) Now I can eat butter by sticks and I feel fine.
I don't know what have changed/healed but it's the permanent change.
bubbaM

[quote="TheBlitherer
Is it a mystery? If bear is to be believed then keto-adaptation means you have to produce ketones in the first place, and then use them at the sites in the body that normally use glucose. You cannot do that if there are glycogen stores in the liver. Bear of course advises no more than 5g a day carbs. You are a low-carber at that 60g, not a no-carber.[/quote]

How much glycogen is stored in the liver, and how long does it take the average human to deplete it?
I remember reading somewhere that going for an hour long walk helps you tap into your stored fat whereas taking a 20 minute jog doesn't accomplish that and it had something to do with stored glycogen. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read it.

Bubba
Scout Finch

Quote:
I remember reading somewhere that going for an hour long walk helps you tap into your stored fat whereas taking a 20 minute jog doesn't accomplish that and it had something to do with stored glycogen. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read it.


You'll burn both fat and glycogen in a 1-hour walk. During a 20-minute jog you'll be burning glucose only. But it takes a while to deplete your glycogen stores - runners generally do it around 20 miles in a marathon, "hitting the wall," as it were.

I'm doing weekly 15- to 18-mile runs and have more energy when I'm done than if I had carbo-loaded back in my high-carb days. Fat-burning is so much more efficient. I don't understand why there isn't more research on sports and endurance and fat-burning/low carb. All the research people are stuck in the high-carb mindset, and they may never get their heads out of their asses.
woof_woof

Scout Finch wrote:

I don't understand why there isn't more research on sports and endurance and fat-burning/low carb. All the research people are stuck in the high-carb mindset, and they may never get their heads out of their asses.


I agree. All 'sport physiology science' is based on optimizing glycogen usage. So most training protocols/diet strategies are at least questionable (if not useless) if you are on zero-carb diet.
But the question is how long you can be on zero carb diet to be able to compete with carb-based athletes.
koch900

Quote:
When I started to eat animal fats after being a vegan for a while I've had the very same problems (bloatness, diarrhoea, etc.) Now I can eat butter by sticks and I feel fine.
I don't know what have changed/healed but it's the permanent change.


Woofwoof,

Can you talk a little more about your transition from veganism to eating lots of animal fats? I am still trying to pin down what is happening with my body, and I was a low-fat vegetarian for 2.5 years (made the switch last October).

Maybe your story can help me in some way, as I still have trouble digesting animal fats (hence my love for coconut oil/milk). This really sucks! I LOVE butter and wish I could eat it by the stick.
Scout Finch

Quote:
But the question is how long you can be on zero carb diet to be able to compete with carb-based athletes.


Well, for endurance activities like long cycling or marathoning, I would guess if you were ketoadapted and training seriously, your performance would be equivalent to carb-based athletes.

For the "fast-twitch" stuff, like sprinting and shorter-duration higher-intensity stuff, a fat-based athlete may likely never match up. It's with endurance activity that fat-based metabolism is preferred.

       Active No-Carber Forums Forum Index -> The real human diet is a totally carnivorous one: The Support Forum
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum