| Archive for Active No-Carber Forums A veggie-free zone |
| Avalon |
Shun Meat says the UNhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7600005.stmLess meat, the better for the planet. Best wishes, Avalon |
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| Erasmus |
So let me get this straight... A Hindu is opposed to eating cows?
I live in amazement. -E |
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| Flymaster |
This chap is a strict Hindu to whom cattle are sacred, he is also a strict vegetarian. What he proposes is for us to give up meat and eat veggies and grains and more soya (infertility anyone?). There are a few problems with this:
There isn't enough global land mass to grow enough food to feed everyone without global deforestation - I don't think we want to do that. Most of the land mass is uncultivatable (is that a word?) due to its altitude, rockyness, sandyness, lack of water, too much water, built over etc. That restricts the working of the land. Where I live even the sheep find it hard going. Rice paddies produce 100m tonnes of methane per year, cattle produce 115m tonnes per year. There are more people than cattle and when they all turn veggie and start producing their own methane ....... well you do the maths. Finally, what does he propose we do with all the meat beasts - kill them and let them rot or turn them out to run wild in the street. He obviously hasn't thought this through properly. Maybe he needs a bit of brain boosting fat and meat in his diet. |
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| Avalon |
I don't know- Potatoes may come into play here. Whether he is Hindu or not is not the point. And, I believe this to be true. But, the real question is, if it is proven true and you are asked by your government to cut back (hopefully not ordered to) would you? For the Planet? Soylent Green is people! |
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| Flymaster |
To be blunt...........no | ||||
| Erasmus |
Uhh... no.
Nor do I believe that it is good for "the planet". -E |
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| Dustyboy |
The UN cracks me up. Without us there is no UN, no U.N. without U.S. | ||||
| Avalon |
...rriiiggghhhttt 
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
[quote="Avalon"]
No. Actually I don't even eat much meat at all anymore  but it is a combination of circumstances that make it this way, including lack of availability of good fresh beef, not because I'm choosing to on purpose. I'm actually pretty content with my milk and egg heavy diet that is very low in food chemicals and amines. If I had the choice, I'd throw in 3 very large rib eyes per week and consider it perfect for me.
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| Avalon |
Well it might not be just about our own desires here.
I love fish and eggs. But if or when things get worse- like the fisheries drying up, I'll cut back willingly because we are not alone on this planet. And with your interest in Pantheism, I'm surprised at your answer. So if it is deemed that in order to help the planet, or let's say other life forms as well, you wouldn't because you like your steak and eggs?
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
The thing is, I don't believe it is healthy, and I don't believe it is "good for the planet." I can't even pretend, because the belief is so strong. There is a circle of life, animals eat animals. I'm part of that. I'm also unfortunately part of what humans have done to the world. I believe if we followed a more tribal/communal and carnivorous way of life that was about living, and eating and enjoying and loving and dying - instead of large scale control - nature's balance would be much more in order. You're not going to ever convince me that mass agriculture and control is a positive thing and that I should eschew meat to promote that. Even if certain people in prominent positions say so. | ||||
| Avalon |
My question was pretty simple and regardless of what is believed, you'd choose your own desires over the welfare of the planet. Which your children and their children will be living on. I'd asked if 'proven'. Granted, sometimes people don't know what they're talking about, but some times they do. And the question was if proven would you cut back and your answer was no and that is not in alignment with Pantheism and that is not pro-life because however we got on this rock, for the moment, it's all we have.
Life does feed on life. And Humans are pretty damn good at destroying life and everything around them in the name of God, Money and personal satisfaction. I thank you for your answer though 
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| Dustyboy |
Dirty hippy | ||||
| Avalon |
ohm
Funny, I just bought a tie-dye shirt at GoodWill yesterday 
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| adwred |
If it was proven that large scale grain and soy agriculture was killing the planet, would you go carnivorous? No - that's a leap, isn't it? You'd probably start your own garden and grow your own vegetables and fruit, if you could - on a small scale ... become as self-sufficient as possible.
To say that never eating meat again would be the answer to saving the planet is an equal leap. If you said 'would you stick to local, organically grown meat only?' I could get behind that. Or even, 'would you hunt your own food or stick to road kill, like Carnation?' would be a more understandable next step, considering you're on a board of people who eat meat almost exclusively and find that to be the most healthy and appropriate human diet. To ask if they'd all go vegetarian ... well, to expect anything but the answers you've gotten is a stretch. |
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| Avalon |
First of all, you're not me. You don't know what I'd do. And having a Garden vs having land for Cows is just funny! How could I afford my own pasture and raise Cows? Taking another approach. And, if it was proven that they were killing the planet I probably would go carnivorous if that wasn't killing the planet also. I might end up eating dirt!
Almost. Exclusively. Hey, you've been all over the map like me. Not in a veggie way, but it wasn't long ago I believe you made the claim that you would IF for the rest of your life. Or Zero carb. We're obviously on a journey and we don't share the same path. But if the planet were in danger, you better believe I will do the right thing. If I had to stop doing something I would. Period. I was asking a question in the Naysayers section and it's not an inappropriate question. You seem to not be able to have any one disagree with you. Why else would you go on about it. And on about it. This should have ended up above when I first wrote- I disagree. I disagree. So knowing me, it should be no surprise I would. But I've enjoyed the match I really have. 
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| adwred |
? This is the first response I've made in this thread. |
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| Dustyboy |
Hey its Red and Green, its like Christmas......sorry. | ||||
| Dustyboy |
Maybe it just seems like it has been going on forever. I know that I am having one of those days. | ||||
| Avalon |
LOL Dusty | ||||
| adwred |
I think you hit the nail on the head, there, Dusty. |
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| Avalon |
Is that a piercing joke? Double Vertical Labret perhaps?
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| Dustyboy |
Did someone try to seal your mouth shut? | ||||
| Avalon |
I did the video's on Youtube shameless pinhole promotion 
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| Dustyboy |
Trying to make the voices stop hunh? Been there. | ||||
| Carnation |
Might I recommend the book the Compassionate Carnivore by Catherine Friend. She addresses the idea of vegetarianism saving the world quite nicely, from a carnivore's (and rancher's) point of view. And believe it or not, you don't have to own a pasture and cows in order to partake of sustainable farming practices. In my experience, the people that whinge about not being able to afford meat from sustainable farms are the same ones who piss away most of their money on booze (or some other vice). | ||||
| Avalon |
Who's whinging? Whinging? 
Meat and veggies, both can be quite expensive. $3.99 a pound for Asparagus! $1.99 for Squash! Ugh! When I first started eating Buffalo Tartar- buying it from Maveric, it was $5.99 a pound. It's now $7.49. And the Grass-Fed Beef is $7.99. That's expensive and no whinging about it. Anyway, let's please do keep this thread rolling! Ideas anyone? Come on Red, dukes UP! I disagree?
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| Carnation |
For the nutrition I'd get, I'd pay $8/lb for beef over $3/lb for asparagus any day. Yes, pastured meat does cost more, but you are paying for a whole cycle of things which represent quality, not just for you or the animal, but for the planet.
And there are plenty of way to get inexpensive quality meat. My income offically qualifies me for poverty level by US standards, yet I'm able to afford good meat for myself and three other people, four cats, and two dogs. We ate roadkill for an entire year in order to save up for a whole pastured cow. When you buy a whole cow, it turns out to be just over $2/lb. Not enough freezer space, split it with 4-6 other people, they're not hard to find. $2/lb still too expensive? Freecycle. Every year at this time, hunters are giving away (they are not allowed to sell it legally in the us) last years' meat - deer, elk, turkey, you name it. Where there's a will, there's a way. Anyhow, yawn.
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
No point is there? Although, I love that you talk about this, because I never would have thought of some of these ideas, so hopefully it can help others who are interested. |
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| Carnation |
And for those who truly cannot afford much meat in their diet, there is always the WAPF wisdom that a gelatin-rich bone broth acts as a sort of protein sparer and allows the body to make best use of the protein ingested. | ||||
| Erasmus |
Really? Is that dressed out or on the hoof? I thought it was much higher dressed out. Cool if is that cheap though. Could you post some info on your sources? -E |
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| Carnation |
I went back and looked, and I was wrong, it was closer to $3/lb. But that was hanging weight, so no head and hide and guts, but it does include bone (which we consider to be quite valuable, and used every last bit of). We got it from a local farm, nothing commercial. Just check around close to you and look for a deal.
Also, I wanted to mention that if you're willing to slaughter and butcher your own meat, you can get it VERY inexpensively at auction. We got a 270 lb. pig last week for $16, no joke. |
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| Avalon |
Carnation wrote:
I'm sorry I draw the line at eating Dogs and Cats Nope, wouldn't do it. Even if my Government ordered me too...  What?
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| Carnation |
Also, a lot of small farmers, especially ones dedicated to sustainable farming, are willing to trade labor for part of the cost of their product. 
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| Carnation |
This isn't where we got our cow, but it is where we get our milk (squeeze works there one day a week for it). This guy is really dedicated to sustainable and organic farming practices, and the meat is a very good price, $3.50/lb for a whole beef. I love him because he gives his infant son raw meat to eat. 
http://www.largavistaranch.com/organic-meat-pricing.html |
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| Avalon |
OMG! You eat small farmers too! And trade their parts for labor! I thought I'd heard everything! But seriously, I applaud grass-fed well treated animals and anyone that raises them this way. The world is moving so fast I hope they can hang on. I know people are learning, I just hope it's not too late or that there are too few to make any real difference. |
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| Carnation |
I would absolutely eat dogs and cats if I were in a country where it's a normal part of their cuisine, or if I were in a survival situation. There's a good essay about this in Waywardsister's blog.
http://www.fearandloathingintheki...cultural-culinary-conundrums.html |
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| Erasmus |
That is a nice price for beef. Add a small charge to cut it into primals and you've got a very good deal. As for the hog, well, that's great! Butchering out hog is easily doable at home. Easier than most reading this think.  Many universities have courses in butchering but really a book will tell you all you need to know.
Great job on the bargains! -E |
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