| Archive for Active No-Carber Forums A veggie-free zone |
| Avalon |
RED ALERT!Or should I say reddy McMeaty Alert
So I'm flaking out a bit. maybe it has to do with focus, that I can't for long. A few days ago I was thinking  (not again!) while researching DIETS that maybe I would try a diet roullette sort of thing. As there seem to be valid dietary approaches every where one turns- And in this very moment I'm damn confused. So, I was thinking why not be a vegan for two weeks, a No-Carb Meat Eater for two, a Fruitarian for one, a Vegetarian for a weekend, the Sonoma Wine Diet for a month! Come on there's WINE!
Because every single one wreaks of some sort of truth. But as I started looking into the Vegan Diet again, as I was thinking of starting on the 1st and would have to plan this out, I kept landing on Fuitarian sites and started, being pulled in by the Fruity Side! Help LC_Dave! The fact is everyone says everything doesn't work. Atkins is bad! You can't be a healthy Vegan! I know I've said some of this before. I do believe many people are healthy to an extent on all of these but the Breatharian Diet. You've lost me there, Sister! And all diets have well written propoganda. Some probably based on truth as they know it and much of it is convincing. Well, I'm not sure now if I will try a roullette wheel diet scheme, but I may try a sincere attempt at a Fruitarian Diet- that may or may not include some raw cheese and whole rye/wheat bread. I know for sure the cheese is a no no. See I'm thinking now that maybe we can live without meat healthfully. Maybe it will take more brain power to figure it out properly. Why are so many smart people Historically, Vegetarian or fruitarian. I'm an Artist. Da Vinci was Fruitarian according to his notes(who knows anyway). But Einstein, Thoreau, George harrison, Henry Ford, Captain & Tennille  (you gotta loveit) ORLANDO BLOOM!
http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/eng/news/161/vg1.htm Regardless of many famous people who are said to be Vegetarian and aren't, it still seems like pretty good evidence that these are Thinkers, and Inventors and Artists. Maybe they know something. Maybe they know more than The Bear JUST KIDDING!
There was a German character on a show from the 60s called Hogan's Heros- and he used to say "I know nu-thing". I know nu-thing! ehh, I understand how a people, living as the inuit with no vegetation adapt to an all meat diet. As do people anywhere in the world eating certain foods for generations. But there are some logical aspects to the earth that are hard to avoid. Fruits: All fruits, not just sweet gm fruits, eggplant, cucumbers, squash etc- if it weren't for commerce, they would all be free, and could be if we had a farm or a large back yard. The planet gives us these as offerings. We don't have to do anything. This alone is worthy of a Nobel Prize! I mean, give the tree..a... PRIZE! And we even cut off their limbs and stuff! Maybe we did start out as Fruitarians, until a climactic event and the trees and plants went bye bye, so we turned to each other and animals for meat to survive. Afterwards we kept on, but some of us retain the knowledge that something just isn't right about what we are doing. So the flock splits. And, if we've been adapting all this time to meat eating, should we go back to this earth given food. Isn't it maddening! Have you seen a Picture of a dead Pig Pile? And about their waste? http://www.rollingstone.com/polit...one_of_americas_worst_polluters/1 I've read how just shipping fruits from around the world is hurting this planet and our oceans. So it's not just meat companies. But what can we do? I haven't found any real documentation or health studies involving Fruitarians. And definitions are blurred all over the place. I suppose a person consuming over what, 75%-80% fruits would be considered a Fruitarian. And maybe if one has some intolerance with berries or apples, there are hundreds more to chose from that may not cause a reaction. As as far as i can tell the main concern is B12 which a multi viatmin would take care of. Protein and calcium are big question marks across the board. UGHH! Ignorence is Bliss. So I think after some research, I will attempt, for how ever long I feel I want to, a Fruitarin based Diet as of March 1st. I'll get a blood test and check my blood sugar levels as I have a glucose meter left from my Baby Yorkie 'Echo' who made it to age 14 as a diabetic and finally blind, very courageous little dog. She took two shots a day, in the neck for five years and never cried a sound or tried to run away. Of course all next week I'll be eating sushi in NYC with friends! 
and I may change my mind later today 
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| ecrivain |
Re: RED ALERT!
It's an interesting idea, and something I've considered myself while reading about the dozens and dozens of different ways of eating and "diets." I think, for it to be a fair experiment, one would need to stick to each style for at least a month, maybe two or three. A week or two just doesn't seem long enough to give it a fair shot. And one would need to be rather strict in sticking to the rules of each style. Heck, give it a shot. Most of those approaches are at least better than the standard American diet, right? And after the experiment, you'll probably have a much better idea of what truly works and doesn't work for your body. And then you can take the best parts of each style and incorporate them into The One Ultimate Way of Eating for you! ;) |
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
Orlando Bloom need some meat on him 
IMO, whatever "optimal" is, if a person feels good and functions well doing what they're doing... then that is good enough. Someone might function better on a low carb diet than on a higher carb lower fat diet, but their mind is simply unable to process that and they suffer on low carb, manifesting all types of symptoms within themselves, certain of a pending heart attack....well they MAY be better off NOT eating low carb. I believe that the mind has a lot of power over the body and whether something is ACTUALLY good or not has to be accepted by the person who is doing it first. I know people like this. Low fat, and the perfectness of fruit and grains is SOOOO imbedded into their psyche that eating saturated fat makes them feel physically disgusting. |
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| adwred |
My one concern about the flip-flopping approach is that your body won't have time to adapt to any of these ways of eating and you'll be putting your health at risk. Mixing periods of high saturated fat with high sugar would be dangerous, IMO. I am all for randomness in diet and I think that things like intermittent fasting have a lot of validity, as well as possibly food-combining type ideas. Food combining, in this case, meaning: eating meat/fat in isolation, and then small amounts of fruits and veg in isolation - kind of like you'd imagine a primitive eating (eating meat and fat as the basis of your diet, but then eating wild vegetation when you happen upon it).
The difference between what you'd be doing and something like, say, food combining, is that you'd be going for equal stretches of eating all meat and eating zero fat, high HIGH sugar, which would, over the course of the year, make your overall macronutrient ratio look exactly as if you were eating a mixed diet consisting of high sugar, high fat, which everyone agrees is the most harmful diet possible for humans. If you're into the idea of fruit and believe it's healthy, a better choice might be to retain a healthy overall macronutrient ratio by eating a mainly-meat diet, intersperced with small doses of vegetation, eaten in isolation (which would arguably help you digest them better and would prevent fat-soluble harmful chemicals, like salicylates, from being fully absorbed). Dr. Kwasniewski (Optimal Diet) has always said that the diet he believes is second to a very high animal fat diet is the Japanese diet, which is proven by their overall longevity and superior health (compared to Westerners diet, that is), which is mostly lean protein and vegetation with very little fat, which reinforces that you should never mix your macronutrients!  
Just my two cents! |
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| Avalon |
Thanx all you Meat Eaters! heh heh. Your two cents count adwred!
What diet did Spock eat? Did he ever eat? It must have been logical either way. I agree the roullette scenario may not be best. However, the fats could remain constant as nuts and coconut oil could conceivebly be allowed throughout, yes? Maybe even olive oil- if I were to allow modernization to be involved. Which, please, I use a car, a blender, a toilet! If you know what I mean. Let's talk toilets for a second, and yes I've had a glass of wine, why do we need to poop? What kind of design is thus? Are there toilets in the woods, like special branch thingies that help us squat? with our bad backs? Has anyone used a japanese toilet? Where you squat? I've heard it's a better you know. Where's the manual People?!!! Okay, as of this moment I'll experiment starting march 1st, for a month or longer unless I'm feeling ill or something. I just finished the last of my Buffalo Tarar with yolk top, mmm it was good, but I put SOY!!!! on it
And you know adwred, I'd never heard of salicylates before one of your last posts. Thanks a heap  One more thingy to worry about.
What other food item on this planet is offered in such a way? Fish swim away, everything else will run away, fruits sweet or not, just sit there- teasing us. Like in a wild scheme of things we'd be walking along and see something on the ground... Hey, what's that? Hmm, smells okay. Boy I've been walking since Africa, maybe I'll take a bite. WOW! SWEET! My mood just shot through the roof! If only I had a nut so I could get some fat in me to stop this insulin spike from happening soon!  What a bummer.
Hey, thanx for letting me post here, I just laughed OL and needed it today. Best wishes, Avalon |
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| adwred |
Avalon, you are one crazy bitch! I love it!  
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| Avalon |
LOL adwred 
Has anyone been here: http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet3.html Just what I need! |
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| Avalon |
DOHHH!!!
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| Avalon |
Okay, the wine's almost gone and labels stink! Check out this quote:
WOW does this speak to me. Anything to rigid may break, from the wind, from the earth, from rebellion. If we're too strict/limited to only meat, or only veggies, how will we cope if they are taken away? Maybe we are supremely adaptable so this isn't an issue. But keeping a label to 75% may give enough headroom to adjust one's course if there be rocks ahead! Would then a primarily Fruit based diet succeed if the remaining 25% were raw eggs and cheese? This is very Dr. Stanley Bass- very vegetarian- anti fruit- pro raw eggs and cheese. But I'm already eating raw eggs, what fun is this?   
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| Dave |
Avalon,
A few things:- Point 1. The Atkins diet, is a low carb diet. Just like Protein Power or the Paleo diet. You don't see all these websites bagging those diets. The principles are alamost the sam eas what the bear talks about. Medical doctors are advocating the diet now. Dr. Atkins was a trained cardiologist. Dr. Eades is a GP. Point 2. For me it comes down to my objective reality and my hyperinsulinism. I can't eat any other diet and be healthy. Point 3. As a buddhist I am insulted that someone would pervert the Buddha's teachings that way. Buddha's teachings were about excaping the cycles of this life, it wasn't a management technique on how to each. The middle part was about avoiding extremes. Vegetarianism is an extreme, which the buddha specifically taught against. When asked should his followers be vegetarian - he said no, it's not required. He specifically addressed this. In Tibet, they were mostly carnivores due to the terrain. They ate very little vegetables. Many Buddhists choose to be vegetarian - but my opinion is that they are seriously distorting the teachings. |
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| elenarose |
This is all very...confusing
Do what works best for you? If you don't react to chemicals then don't worry about them. If you don't react to carbs don't worry about them. Just focus on your symptoms and treating them through diet. And make intelligent assumptions on our primitive diet. |
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| Avalon |
Hi LC_Dave!, you wrote:
Yeah but... http://www.veggiebuddhists.com/ Is there always another side to a story? I think a lacto-ovo vegetarian is far less extreme than a Vegan or fruitarian, for sure. From a killing perspective, I suppose unhatched eggs is one of the least destructive animal foods- meaning like, killing an already living thing. I'm not sure if that would hold up in court though. Thank you for reminding me of Buddhist teachings. I have always had an interest and desire to learn more about them. elenarose, you're very sweet. I guess it could be like opening Pandoras Box. I've done this before though, get all souped up, then suddenly I'm eating sushi.
Well, if I change my diet as an experiment I'll have to cut back on the vino. Thankfully I'm feeling more like myself now... nothing like red wine, Google and a place to post!
Goodnight all 
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| Dave |
Avalon,
My opinion is that those guys are pretencious wankers. Take it from the actual Buddha's mouth:- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bullitt/bfaq.html#veggie http://buddhism.about.com/od/keyfigures/a/Devadatta.htm
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| Avalon |
Wankers! But LC, a quote from your link:
I understand that it is not required, but perhaps is a result of enlightenment Or, not as the case may be.
adwred, I've been interested in the Optimal Diet before. And just read this page: http://www.cybernaut.com.au/optim...ition/medical/contradictions.html There's so much on-line and it's been months since i've read up on it. This as well, is very convincing! Is this all because Nutrition is still an infant with respect to how long we've been on the planet? So everyone is staking a claim? It was suggested on another forum that a person would rather eat bugs, than take a B12 pill. The problem is if you're sincerely trying to avoid killing something- by eating bugs I mean, you may as well eat eggs. Since eggs are the king of all proteins right. And we're back to a more flexible diet. Of course if we're talking science, like the Stefansson year long test, then all we know is on the side line, and the test rules. Like who has really tested the Fruitarian diet the way they tested Stefansson. And who believes the Stefansson rersults? A few of us? Or that fat supplies twice the energy of carbohydrate? So if I do the test, instead of keeping eggs in as a precaution, Maybe I should devise a strict Fruitarian plan except it seems well known that B12 will be missing which brings me back to a supplement- perhaps sublingual so not to put stress on the liver.
Tomorrow night I'll be in NY for a week and will not be concerned with any of this till I get back. New York has Sushi everywhere! And Korean restaurants where you can get raw slices of beef! |
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| paleogirl |
I played around with my diet for over a year, trying to figure out what was making me sick and what would make me well. I added in a lot of raw veg at one point and was actually raw vegan for 3 weeks. I quite not because I was sick of it but because it made me sick - I gained 10lbs, skin errupted, was exhausted, became hypoglycemic so couldn't eat fruit, so it was just raw veg. And nuts, but they made me bloat out, so then I couldn't do them. It appealed to me (in a way that regular veganism doesn't) because it was raw, natural - stuff we would have eaten millions of years ago, stuff earth provides. My body just personally couldn't do it. I switched back to low-carb Paleo (not Atkins - ie: all natural REAL food)and felt better within 24 hours. Switch to carnivore just magnified that and I know now low-zero carb carnivore diet is what is right for ME. I get well-meaning friends telling me to eat less red meat and more chicken (they know by now to steer clear of telling me to eat grains!!).. Thing is, I rarely get sick. I have more energy than all of them. My weight is optimal (I'm just working on losing 5lbs to be what I feel would be 'perfect'). My skin is clear and glows, etc. etc. Yet these people make a big fuss when I sit down to eat, saying "what a lot of MEAT!" because I make a plate of 1/2lb grass-fed ground beef. I just tell them when you cut out all the other CRAP there is more room for REAL FOOD! They don't know a thing about grass-fed meat vs grain-fed, or good fats vs bad.. they're just stuck in the government-funded mindset of meat and fat are bad.
Fruit I would love to do because I like it, but I THRIVE on a low sugar diet. My sweet treat is a spoonful of organic almond butter. So yeah anyway, point is, find what's right for YOU and stick to your guns.
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| Avalon |
Hi Paleogirl,
Good hearing about your experiences. I've been very interested in paleo-dieting. And I suppose my only reservation for a 'meat only' diet is, it doesn't make enough sense to be 100% a meat eater, when there are other food-stuffs as well. And I do see how high sugar fruits may be bad for some or in large quantity. If the inuit had left their homes, their diet would have changed- probably for the worse if they moved near a SAD community. Are we all a product of our enviornment? Not since the discovery of travel. I wonder if anyone has done an experiment on just processed foods. The Processed Foods Diet! Only boxed, canned and highly salted foods! Or, The Cooked Dead Diet heh heh
Right now I have a cold. My second in just a few months and the first 2 I've had in like 6-7 years or so. Visiting a cold New York I'm sure didn't help, and the day I felt sick, I'd just returned from the clinic to set an appointment for a physical. Maybe it got me there. There was a cougher on the plane as well But right now, at this moment of yucky-doodiness, I don't give a bleep about Vegan, I just want to eat something tastey! Never been big on cake, but dishes with cheese and sauce OH BOY!
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| Avalon |
Yellow Alert!
Okay, maybe I'm a Flexitarian for now.
That makes those remaining eggs in the fridge less of a crime and I'm not sure if I'm ready to go cold turkey  I'd actually be more in line with the Hunzas then, as they only ate meat once a week or something like that. But since this has not so much been about health, but also a desire to not harm animals- maybe I just have to lighten up a bit. I mean Darth Vader blew up planets right? And he still ended up all-glowing at the end...hmmm
After hearing of Sally Fallon's take on pork, and other opinions, I think I'll have no problem leaving that behind, but I don't want to leave sushi/sashimi behind, even if it is the soy I'm addicted to. And my newly discovered Buffalo tartar. Boy, if I could have that every so often. Maybe it's not up to me to change 2.5 million years of meat eating! Oh the guilt! I need a virtual hug. |
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| adwred |
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| Dave |
Avalon,
you are always welcome back to the meaty fold if you decide to abandon us. |
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| Avalon |
Thank you adwred and LC! | ||