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Viking Dan

Positive cholesterol results on the meat diet

http://slowburn.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/06/me_and_my_stres.html
bleublonde

I'm not sure what to make of this. On one hand, it makes sense that the more you use an organ, the faster it will wear out. But aren't there other good effects of cardio? And what about HIIT? At least in this article, they seemed to be talking about endurance athletes. I'll be looking forward to part II. Thanks for posting.
Dean

I've often speculated that the best way to workout is to:

* do a good variety of isometric/stretching... keep very limber (do this on ALL workout days, even a bit after the workouts)

* do resistance training to build, strengthen, tone muscles

* do cardio at around 60-70% intensity (good brisk walking) a few days a week

While I believe that it is extremely vital to MOVE (for our circulatory system, lymph system, CV system, etc.), I have always been kind of leery about overtaxing one's CV system by doing high intensity cardio workouts. Also, I have always heard that 60-70% intensity is going to burn more fat, and waste less muscle (that one is trying to grow). And then there is the issue of pounding one's body so badly by running.

What are other's thoughts on this?
Viking Dan

PaleoDeano wrote:
I've often speculated that the best way to workout is to:

* do a good variety of isometric/stretching... keep very limber (do this on ALL workout days, even a bit after the workouts)

* do resistance training to build, strengthen, tone muscles

* do cardio at around 60-70% intensity (good brisk walking) a few days a week

While I believe that it is extremely vital to MOVE (for our circulatory system, lymph system, CV system, etc.), I have always been kind of leery about overtaxing one's CV system by doing high intensity cardio workouts. Also, I have always heard that 60-70% intensity is going to burn more fat, and waste less muscle (that one is trying to grow). And then there is the issue of pounding one's body so badly by running.

What are other's thoughts on this?


I wonder if the cardio intensity is that meaningful on a lowcarb diet. There's not much else to burn but fat. Any glucose in the system is going to be reserved for the brain and the few parts of the body that can't run on anything else.
Dean

Viking Dan wrote:
I wonder if the cardio intensity is that meaningful on a lowcarb diet. There's not much else to burn but fat. Any glucose in the system is going to be reserved for the brain and the few parts of the body that can't run on anything else.

OK... assuming this is true... what about the excess stress one may be putting on the CV system, doing high intensity cardio?
jl53563

Like Dan, I also belileve that conventional wisdom, when it comes to exercise, can be thrown out the window for us very low carbers. Virtually everything you read is geared toward someone on a high carb diet. Our bodies just work differently. My theory for maximum weight loss is to burn as many calories as I can, as quickly as I can. I am burning virtually all fat, so the more calories I can burn, the better. None of that 70% MHR crap for me. As for excess stress on the CV system, I don't know. Define excess stress. I think it is different for everybody. I figure if you are comfortable doing something, then it is not excess. I trust my body to tell me when I am doing too much, which it occasionally does. Then I back off a bit.
jl53563

Also, I have heard that you can maintain whatever level of fitness you have attained by doing cardio for 20 minutes, 3 times per week. Anybody else ever hear this? So, you could work out really hard for maybe a few months or whatever. Get your CV system in whatever kind of shape you want it to be in, and then back off a bit. Maybe quite a bit. My high school coaches always told me, "i'ts easier to stay in shape than it is to get in shape." That has always been my experience, as well. Any thoughts?
Dean

jl53563 wrote:
Also, I have heard that you can maintain whatever level of fitness you have attained by doing cardio for 20 minutes, 3 times per week. Anybody else ever hear this? So, you could work out really hard for maybe a few months or whatever. Get your CV system in whatever kind of shape you want it to be in, and then back off a bit. Maybe quite a bit. My high school coaches always told me, "i'ts easier to stay in shape than it is to get in shape." That has always been my experience, as well. Any thoughts?

I agree. You would want to gradually increase the intensity of your cardio workouts. And, depending on your desires, do anywhere from 20 min (in your HR zone) up to 60 min or whatever. But, yes... consistent, regular exercise is vital to health, and if kept up is much "easier" than trying to get yourself into shape in the first place. When you have sat around for a long time, your body is going to creek and groan when getting back into being active. BUT... if you want to remain free from aches and pains experienced by so many older adults, best to get into (and stick with) a regular exercise routine. Be careful to do only the intensity that you can truly handle... building up slowly to higher levels of intensity. It is NOT good to overtax your body! Also, stretching cannot be emphasized enough. If your muscles are not stretched, you will not be flexible, and this can easily lead to injury, and just plain "aches and pains" as you "age". DON'T AGE... keep active! Wink
Viking Dan

PaleoDeano wrote:
Viking Dan wrote:
I wonder if the cardio intensity is that meaningful on a lowcarb diet. There's not much else to burn but fat. Any glucose in the system is going to be reserved for the brain and the few parts of the body that can't run on anything else.

OK... assuming this is true... what about the excess stress one may be putting on the CV system, doing high intensity cardio?


You can't perform maximal intensity exercise (for long) in a carb depleted state anyway, so don't worry about it.
Carolyn

Has anyone read part 2 -
http://slowburn.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/06/me_and_my_stres_1.html

Has anyone read his book Slow Burn? I just put a hold on it at the library.
jl53563

I just read it.

From the article:
Quote:
He kicked it up again. This time the treadmill was at a steep angle and I had to run. Dr. Weinrauch said "This is the last few minutes. He asked me "On a scale of 1-10 how hard do you feel you're working? I said "1." But I was comparing this to my workout. I quickly changed my answer "Well, 3."

He then said "Well, your heart rate is now at 168 and we'd like to get it to 178."

It never happened.


Man, this is exactly how it is with me. I can get my heart rate up to 170, which for me is about 97% MHR, and I don't feel like I am putting out anywhere near my maximum effort. In fact, just the other day I was doing this. I was thinking to myself "how hard to I feel like I am working?" And I was thinking that I would rate it about a 5 on a scale of 1-10. Amazing
Heather

Viking Dan wrote:
PaleoDeano wrote:
Viking Dan wrote:
I wonder if the cardio intensity is that meaningful on a lowcarb diet. There's not much else to burn but fat. Any glucose in the system is going to be reserved for the brain and the few parts of the body that can't run on anything else.

OK... assuming this is true... what about the excess stress one may be putting on the CV system, doing high intensity cardio?

You can't perform maximal intensity exercise (for long) in a carb depleted state anyway, so don't worry about it.


You guys lost me.... Call me stupid but:

What's wrong with burning fat? Did I miss something?

What is high intensity cardio? Running? Low intensity=walking?

What then is maximal intensity?

Why can't you do it in a carb depleted state?

Sorry, I'm so lost......
Dean

Heather,

Nothing is wrong with burning fat.

High intensity cardio would be going at like 85% or more of your MHR (maximum heart rate). Running can get you there. But, even walking can... on incline and at really brisk speeds. It's what is referred to as the "anaerobic zone". This high intensity zone burns more calories. On a typical high carb diet, 15% of calories burned are from fat. But, on a VLC diet, where your glycogen stores are maxed out on the low end, you would have to burn fat for all your energy needs.

Cardio intensity not being meaningful on a lowcarb diet simply means that there will not be glycogen to burn for the anaerobic (sprinting) type exercise. However, this is really not the same as high intensity cardio anyway. If one gets oxygen delivery going to the muscles, then they can burn fat for fuel. It is just in the first few seconds (like in a 100 meter dash) that performance would be impaired without glycogen stores. But, even on VLC, there are still some glycogen stores.

Being FFA-adapted, your muscles will use enzymes that burn fat primarily... for ANY exercise... AS LONG AS there is OXYGEN! Takes a few seconds to get oxygen to the muscles via the blood. But, there is enough glycogen to supply glucose for immediate needs anyway! It's just that a carb eater has a bunch of glycogen stores and uses those stores to burn carbs instead of fat... the enzymes are all setup to do that Krebs Cycle thing, and use the byproducts of glycolysis (which uses carbs).

I think where the confusion may lie is that our cells CAN use glycolysis if needed (because oxygen can't get there immediately). BUT... even if oxygen is present, our cells can STILL use glycolysis (using carbs for this) to make the substrates needed for production of ATP (the energy source to run on that treadmill... or do ANYTHING). However, fat can be used to make ATP... and no carbs need to get involved! It depends on the enzymatic setup that you have in place. You get that setup by adaptation... like in "keto-adaptation".

I think Bear REALLY confused people when he said glycogen was not used by the muscles. This made everything SO confusing! Glycogen IS used by the muscles. It's used for making ATP when no oxygen is present... because it takes some time to get oxygen delivered to your muscle cells via the blood. It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE whether you are a carb eater or fat eater... you MUST HAVE glycogen for immediate muscle energy needs... PERIOD! If you eat carbs all the time... you will get HUGE muscle glycogen stores, and your muscles will USE this glycogen for fuel, even when oxygen starts getting delivered. If you DON'T eat carbs all the time, your glycogen stores will be LOW, and you will NOT build up those stores, and therefore will use FAT to fuel your muscles (once oxygen starts to get pumped in). BUT, even a carb eater will start using fat for fuel after like 12 minutes, doing cardio. But they need to switch out the enzymes to start using the ones to burn fat. But, the fat eater will already have these enzymes in place to start using fat much sooner. There is always a mix of fuels being used by the various cells in your body. On VLC, you will use more fat for fuel than on HC. Enzymes are just the helpers in the whole process.

Unless one was used to it, I still think there might be excess stress doing high intensity cardio.

Does this make more sense, Heather?
jl53563

Deano, looks like you did some research on those mysterious enzymes we were talking about last week.
Viking Dan

Carolyn wrote:
Has anyone read part 2 -
http://slowburn.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/06/me_and_my_stres_1.html

Has anyone read his book Slow Burn? I just put a hold on it at the library.


I have his book. Its a good strength training program, but can be brutal if done right. Its basically Superslow.
Heather

PaleoDeano wrote:
Does this make more sense, Heather?


Yup Yes that part makes sense. The other comments confused me....
Dean

Heather... now you have ME confused! Bonkers

What "other comments" are you referring to? Smile
Heather

The comments I quoted when I asked the questions about 6 posts ago.
Dean

Oh... OK.

So, what I posted made some sense?
Heather

Yes, Yup absolutely!

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