Carne Vorare
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ladies n' gentlemen..I present to u, Jack LaLanne 
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmik...11/04/jack-lalanne-vs-ancel-keys/
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BlackLabelSimian
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Both have their benefits, but if forced to pick one, I prefer strength training overall. Just cuz I think it's enjoyable.
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Johnny Ace
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No one ever got strong doing aerobics, but many strength trainers built fantastic cardiovascular strength.
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teknodamage
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no doubt about it... strength training has more benefits vs. aerobic.
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Carne Vorare
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Both have their benefits, but if forced to pick one, I prefer strength training overall. Just cuz I think it's enjoyable. |
precisely!
the only aerobics i enjoy is swimming.
if u dont include walking or interval training which is kinda anaerobic.
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Carne Vorare
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| Johnny Ace wrote: | | No one ever got strong doing aerobics, but many strength trainers built fantastic cardiovascular strength. |
ur right bout that, r u into kettlebell training??
the guy whos famous for it in the US claims u can build great cardiovascular capacity *in his words* "without the dishonor of aerobics."
http://enterthekettlebell.com/
strong words, he must be pretty confident!
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Carne Vorare
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| teknodamage wrote: | | no doubt about it... strength training has more benefits vs. aerobic. |
it is interesting u say that, cuz the last 50 years has seen the decline of strength training as a physician-recommended sport. then again, physicians as a whole aren't the pinnacle of fitness. far from it
its that whole..moderate thing. u know, ppl r encouraged to do things in moderation..and end up, well..moderate. 
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Carne Vorare
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a lil surprised we got so many votes *who didnt comment* for strength training.
feel better already 
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Puma
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I prefer to lift and speed train on hills. Sprint up, run down. Works your lungs like no other, and improves your mechanics. For lifting I prefer barbells and dumbbells over kettlebells. You can use more weight, more lifts, and build more total strength. Pinching plates is way harder and builds more hand strength than gripping a kettlebell. I know because I have some kettlebells, two 25s and two 35s. They just aren't worth the investment.
Pinch 25 with your little finger and your thumb, do 55+ with all your fingers and thumb in one hand, and you'll squeeze a #3 CoC. Or at least be doing #2 for numbers.
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Johnny Ace
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| Carne Vorare wrote: | | Johnny Ace wrote: | | No one ever got strong doing aerobics, but many strength trainers built fantastic cardiovascular strength. |
ur right bout that, r u into kettlebell training??
the guy whos famous for it in the US claims u can build great cardiovascular capacity *in his words* "without the dishonor of aerobics."
http://enterthekettlebell.com/
strong words, he must be pretty confident! |
I've never used kettlebells. I have nothing against them, but I remember doing swings and cleans with dumbbells, long before I ever heard of him. The kettlebell aspect of his work-outs is gimmicky; the work-outs themselves work just fine with the dumbbell rack in any gym. In fact, the dumbbell rack is probably better, because of the smaller weight intervals. Hell, for $600 you can get a set of BowFlex adjustable dumbbells that run from 10 to 90 pounds. $600 won't buy you 6 kettlebells, let alone the whole 10-90 pound range. But if the gimmick of the kettlebell gets people to exercise, I'm all for it. Well, not for men, but definitely for women. I don't want any more competition for my flat stomach. 
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teknodamage
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| Carne Vorare wrote: | | teknodamage wrote: | | no doubt about it... strength training has more benefits vs. aerobic. |
it is interesting u say that, cuz the last 50 years has seen the decline of strength training as a physician-recommended sport. then again, physicians as a whole aren't the pinnacle of fitness. far from it
its that whole..moderate thing. u know, ppl r encouraged to do things in moderation..and end up, well..moderate. |
haha, touche!
But you get the wrong idea... strength training can be moderate as well. Ask any long time bodybuilder or power lifter how many injuries they've had. My father was a weightlifting, college football, military brawlin' bad boy. He has artificial knees now because of it. And believe me... I know what hardcore weight training is. I just see it as too much of an (speaking for myself) obsession these days... hence my mantra of moderation.
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Carne Vorare
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| Puma wrote: | I prefer to lift and speed train on hills. Sprint up, run down. Works your lungs like no other, and improves your mechanics. For lifting I prefer barbells and dumbbells over kettlebells. You can use more weight, more lifts, and build more total strength. Pinching plates is way harder and builds more hand strength than gripping a kettlebell. I know because I have some kettlebells, two 25s and two 35s. They just aren't worth the investment.
Pinch 25 with your little finger and your thumb, do 55+ with all your fingers and thumb in one hand, and you'll squeeze a #3 CoC. Or at least be doing #2 for numbers. |
[grin] sprint up..ok but run down???? helluva endurance u got there
normally barbells form my core training plan but use kettlebells for variation exercises like one-arm presses n' stuff. theyre quite ergonomic and therefore easy on the hands.
dont consider myself a 'tough guy' yet but for the weight i normally lift hands r a lil delicate so ergonomic stuff goes a long way..
and, kettlebells r good fer developing endurance n' lung capacity, properly used. but im guessing the reps may be too high for my liking, there.
pinch grip w/little finger n' thumb!?
heh. stuck w/35 @ da moment w/all fingers.
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BlackLabelSimian
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Drag a sled or some kinda weight. Kill two birds with one stone.
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Carne Vorare
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| Johnny Ace wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | Johnny Ace wrote: | | No one ever got strong doing aerobics, but many strength trainers built fantastic cardiovascular strength. |
ur right bout that, r u into kettlebell training??
the guy whos famous for it in the US claims u can build great cardiovascular capacity *in his words* "without the dishonor of aerobics."
http://enterthekettlebell.com/
strong words, he must be pretty confident! |
I've never used kettlebells. I have nothing against them, but I remember doing swings and cleans with dumbbells, long before I ever heard of him. The kettlebell aspect of his work-outs is gimmicky; the work-outs themselves work just fine with the dumbbell rack in any gym. In fact, the dumbbell rack is probably better, because of the smaller weight intervals. Hell, for $600 you can get a set of BowFlex adjustable dumbbells that run from 10 to 90 pounds. $600 won't buy you 6 kettlebells, let alone the whole 10-90 pound range. But if the gimmick of the kettlebell gets people to exercise, I'm all for it. Well, not for men, but definitely for women. I don't want any more competition for my flat stomach. |
i found, dumbells a lil harsh on the hands..especially some of the homemade versions. and theyre a bit more difficult to balance for my preferred exercises
..which is not to say they dont work better for other kinds of training.
case in point, i often recommend dumbbells for ppl whose particular workouts would really benefit from them..
but yea the kettlebells jump sizes a lil too much sometimes. then again, Russians r not really moderate ppl. women for some reason find kettlebells not so daunting..maybe theyre secretly drawn to iron? plus the cute metal shape kinda helps.
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BlackLabelSimian
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My biggest gripe about KBs is that they are so friggen expensive. Especially the ones DD peddles.
If it weren't for the price I might actually give them a shot.
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Carne Vorare
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Drag a sled or some kinda weight. Kill two birds with one stone. |
lika da scene in Rocky IV w/Sylvester Stallone?
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Carne Vorare
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| teknodamage wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | teknodamage wrote: | | no doubt about it... strength training has more benefits vs. aerobic. |
it is interesting u say that, cuz the last 50 years has seen the decline of strength training as a physician-recommended sport. then again, physicians as a whole aren't the pinnacle of fitness. far from it
its that whole..moderate thing. u know, ppl r encouraged to do things in moderation..and end up, well..moderate. |
haha, touche!
But you get the wrong idea... strength training can be moderate as well. Ask any long time bodybuilder or power lifter how many injuries they've had. My father was a weightlifting, college football, military brawlin' bad boy. He has artificial knees now because of it. And believe me... I know what hardcore weight training is. I just see it as too much of an (speaking for myself) obsession these days... hence my mantra of moderation. |
my First rule o' lifting..dont get injured. aka Lift Safe.
after all, u dont really want to waste 6 weeks watching House reruns and checking out the semi-cute neighbour, do u
havin' said that, i can understand the pain of watching someone close 2 u injure themselves and do sum permanent damage. it really sux.
so, Second rule of liftin'..dont overtrain.
again, overtraining can lead to injury
and im including overtraining per session..
u know, too many sets/reps + bad form = recipe for disaster
it boils down to personal goals, yea
if u wanna look good in clothes, why bust balls w/a 6-rep range??
have a hard time explaining that to certain ppl [shakes head slowly]
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Drag a sled or some kinda weight. Kill two birds with one stone. |
lika da scene in Rocky IV w/Sylvester Stallone?
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Yeah, something like that. lol
I've been reading a lot of Westside related stuff and that kinda got me into them.
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Carne Vorare
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | My biggest gripe about KBs is that they are so friggen expensive. Especially the ones DD peddles.
If it weren't for the price I might actually give them a shot. |
whos DD?  *dragon door?*
yea, kinda steep. currently buyin' 2 small ones to help introduce other ppl to training. u know, less mental barriers they'll have to push thru to start something positive.
in the Pavel book he did mention theyre especially beloved by minimalists. if u have access to a reasonably equipped gym then they arent really necessary.
the one exercise *and there r many i dont do yet/dont plan to try* that they might not be replaceable for iz renegade rows. really mf-ing *pardon my French* painful workout that delivers the goods..
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Carne Vorare
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Drag a sled or some kinda weight. Kill two birds with one stone. |
lika da scene in Rocky IV w/Sylvester Stallone?
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Yeah, something like that. lol
I've been reading a lot of Westside related stuff and that kinda got me into them. |
Stallone wuz da legend, eh?
read he bruised a cardiac muscle sumtime in the filming.
possibly got punched there by good ole' Lundgren.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | My biggest gripe about KBs is that they are so friggen expensive. Especially the ones DD peddles.
If it weren't for the price I might actually give them a shot. |
whos DD? *dragon door?*
yea, kinda steep. currently buyin' 2 small ones to help introduce other ppl to training. u know, less mental barriers they'll have to push thru to start something positive.
in the Pavel book he did mention theyre especially beloved by minimalists. if u have access to a reasonably equipped gym then they arent really necessary.
the one exercise *and there r many i dont do yet/dont plan to try* that they might not be replaceable for iz renegade rows. really mf-ing *pardon my French* painful workout that delivers the goods.. |
Yeah, Dragon Door. A tad pricey...LOL
I have a ton of equipment already, so it's not like I can't get by. Maybe someday if I have some extra $$. (Yeah, like that'll happen. LOL)
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Puma
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| Carne Vorare wrote: | | Puma wrote: | I prefer to lift and speed train on hills. Sprint up, run down. Works your lungs like no other, and improves your mechanics. For lifting I prefer barbells and dumbbells over kettlebells. You can use more weight, more lifts, and build more total strength. Pinching plates is way harder and builds more hand strength than gripping a kettlebell. I know because I have some kettlebells, two 25s and two 35s. They just aren't worth the investment.
Pinch 25 with your little finger and your thumb, do 55+ with all your fingers and thumb in one hand, and you'll squeeze a #3 CoC. Or at least be doing #2 for numbers. |
[grin] sprint up..ok but run down???? helluva endurance u got there
normally barbells form my core training plan but use kettlebells for variation exercises like one-arm presses n' stuff. theyre quite ergonomic and therefore easy on the hands.
dont consider myself a 'tough guy' yet but for the weight i normally lift hands r a lil delicate so ergonomic stuff goes a long way..
and, kettlebells r good fer developing endurance n' lung capacity, properly used. but im guessing the reps may be too high for my liking, there.
pinch grip w/little finger n' thumb!?
heh. stuck w/35 @ da moment w/all fingers. |
Heh, my endurance is that good in sprints yet. I can do about 8-9 times sprint up and walk down, 2-3 times sprinting up and running down.
My upper skeleton is small, so I have(had) weaker hands than most people as well. I can almost do my #1, but I mostly train with pinches...training with grippers just doesn't cut it.
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johndela1
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Try doing the same kettle bell exercises but simply use a dumbell.
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Carne Vorare
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | My biggest gripe about KBs is that they are so friggen expensive. Especially the ones DD peddles.
If it weren't for the price I might actually give them a shot. |
whos DD? *dragon door?*
yea, kinda steep. currently buyin' 2 small ones to help introduce other ppl to training. u know, less mental barriers they'll have to push thru to start something positive.
in the Pavel book he did mention theyre especially beloved by minimalists. if u have access to a reasonably equipped gym then they arent really necessary.
the one exercise *and there r many i dont do yet/dont plan to try* that they might not be replaceable for iz renegade rows. really mf-ing *pardon my French* painful workout that delivers the goods.. |
Yeah, Dragon Door. A tad pricey...LOL
I have a ton of equipment already, so it's not like I can't get by. Maybe someday if I have some extra $$. (Yeah, like that'll happen. LOL) |
u do realize, u just hafta sign up w/sum movie studio and ALL yer financial woes will be over. course, you'll have sum new ones then
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Carne Vorare
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| Puma wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | Puma wrote: | I prefer to lift and speed train on hills. Sprint up, run down. Works your lungs like no other, and improves your mechanics. For lifting I prefer barbells and dumbbells over kettlebells. You can use more weight, more lifts, and build more total strength. Pinching plates is way harder and builds more hand strength than gripping a kettlebell. I know because I have some kettlebells, two 25s and two 35s. They just aren't worth the investment.
Pinch 25 with your little finger and your thumb, do 55+ with all your fingers and thumb in one hand, and you'll squeeze a #3 CoC. Or at least be doing #2 for numbers. |
[grin] sprint up..ok but run down???? helluva endurance u got there
normally barbells form my core training plan but use kettlebells for variation exercises like one-arm presses n' stuff. theyre quite ergonomic and therefore easy on the hands.
dont consider myself a 'tough guy' yet but for the weight i normally lift hands r a lil delicate so ergonomic stuff goes a long way..
and, kettlebells r good fer developing endurance n' lung capacity, properly used. but im guessing the reps may be too high for my liking, there.
pinch grip w/little finger n' thumb!?
heh. stuck w/35 @ da moment w/all fingers. |
Heh, my endurance is that good in sprints yet. I can do about 8-9 times sprint up and walk down, 2-3 times sprinting up and running down.
My upper skeleton is small, so I have(had) weaker hands than most people as well. I can almost do my #1, but I mostly train with pinches...training with grippers just doesn't cut it. |
still wonderin how to get those 8-9 sprints in. seven years ago when i wuz pretty fit, 5 da max i cud do. what sprint distance r we talking bout here.
mine was 80 - 100 m
what other back + pulling exercises do u do for the upper body? curious.
and if i may ask *so i dont come across as a complete fool giving irrelevant opinions* r u male/female??
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Puma
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I'm a male, 5'8 and 128. A bit on the skinny side.  I do lots of pull-ups and working on my overhead press. Getting into bent-over rows, but I still like pull-ups more. I can almost do a one arm pull-up, working on isometrics at the moment. Of course, I'm lightweight so it's easier for me to do them. I've added deadlifts/front squats with my new weights and gained a couple pounds but it seems like it's actually helping my pull-ups. I guess it somehow improved my recovery time or trained muscles I was neglecting without weights.(Obviously my legs are a little behind, only deadlifting 220 for 1 right now...)
I sprint up a hill near my house. It's fairly steep but it isn't very long. I'd say it's about 80 meters, maybe as little as 60.
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Carne Vorare
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| Puma wrote: | I'm a male, 5'8 and 128. A bit on the skinny side. I do lots of pull-ups and working on my overhead press. Getting into bent-over rows, but I still like pull-ups more. I can almost do a one arm pull-up, working on isometrics at the moment. Of course, I'm lightweight so it's easier for me to do them. I've added deadlifts/front squats with my new weights and gained a couple pounds but it seems like it's actually helping my pull-ups. I guess it somehow improved my recovery time or trained muscles I was neglecting without weights.(Obviously my legs are a little behind, only deadlifting 220 for 1 right now...)
I sprint up a hill near my house. It's fairly steep but it isn't very long. I'd say it's about 80 meters, maybe as little as 60. |
220 for 1 @ 128 lbs ain't half bad
can only do 1 pullup at a time @ present, here. bodyweight in da way!
back exercises done properly generally have the capacity to add decent mass. im guessing its a bodytype thing?
meaning, unless ur dying for bulk..the legendary Bruce Lee was what, 135 lbs @ ur height?  sum say he was pound for pound one of the strongest men of his time...
pressing is one of my fave exercises. started them this year after a two-year layoff (GASP) from serious training. its the exercise thats supposed to give one a balanced + powerful looking upper body; if enough weight is employed.
60 or 80 m, huh?? sounds ALOT liek my old dash up the cemetery [grin]
my god i feel old.
if i cud do a one-arm pullup...that wud be the day
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | My biggest gripe about KBs is that they are so friggen expensive. Especially the ones DD peddles.
If it weren't for the price I might actually give them a shot. |
whos DD? *dragon door?*
yea, kinda steep. currently buyin' 2 small ones to help introduce other ppl to training. u know, less mental barriers they'll have to push thru to start something positive.
in the Pavel book he did mention theyre especially beloved by minimalists. if u have access to a reasonably equipped gym then they arent really necessary.
the one exercise *and there r many i dont do yet/dont plan to try* that they might not be replaceable for iz renegade rows. really mf-ing *pardon my French* painful workout that delivers the goods.. |
Yeah, Dragon Door. A tad pricey...LOL
I have a ton of equipment already, so it's not like I can't get by. Maybe someday if I have some extra $$. (Yeah, like that'll happen. LOL) |
u do realize, u just hafta sign up w/sum movie studio and ALL yer financial woes will be over. course, you'll have sum new ones then |
Mo' money, mo' problems...
I could live with mo' money.  
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Johnny Ace
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One quick addendum to my earlier posts on the thread:
The good people at IronMind sell plate loading kettlebell handles. Load up the kettlebell handle with plates and swing away. I'd be wary of having the bottom end stick out and smack me in the eye or face, though.
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Carne Vorare
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Carne Vorare wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | My biggest gripe about KBs is that they are so friggen expensive. Especially the ones DD peddles.
If it weren't for the price I might actually give them a shot. |
whos DD? *dragon door?*
yea, kinda steep. currently buyin' 2 small ones to help introduce other ppl to training. u know, less mental barriers they'll have to push thru to start something positive.
in the Pavel book he did mention theyre especially beloved by minimalists. if u have access to a reasonably equipped gym then they arent really necessary.
the one exercise *and there r many i dont do yet/dont plan to try* that they might not be replaceable for iz renegade rows. really mf-ing *pardon my French* painful workout that delivers the goods.. |
Yeah, Dragon Door. A tad pricey...LOL
I have a ton of equipment already, so it's not like I can't get by. Maybe someday if I have some extra $$. (Yeah, like that'll happen. LOL) |
u do realize, u just hafta sign up w/sum movie studio and ALL yer financial woes will be over. course, you'll have sum new ones then |
Mo' money, mo' problems...
I could live with mo' money. |
VERY tickled
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