ReddyMcMeaty
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Just a beautiful picture, is all
"Picture ID: 021507 Category: Indigenous people and reindeer husbandry
Eating raw meat
Description:
Eating raw meat is important for the people who not have vegetables"
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Mike
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Re: Just a beautiful picture, is allYou seem to be a really tough lady. hehe
I wonder if raw meat is really necessary on an all meat diet in the long run?
According to Steffansson raw meat is not necessary to prevent scurvy.
What do you think?
Mike
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Max Thunder
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Mike, where did you read that about scurvy and Stefansson?
I'm very interested.
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GeoCarnivore
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| Max Thunder wrote: | Mike, where did you read that about scurvy and Stefansson?
I'm very interested. |
Stefanson definately wasn't eating raw meat during the Bellevue experiment.
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WesleyT
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i think some of the nutrients would stay if you dont overcook it (still raw in the inside)
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ReddyMcMeaty
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I think the nutrients would be there if part of the meat stayed raw as well. As for raw meat being neccesary (I include meat where the majority is rare in the same category), I think it is necessary for optimum health but not necessary for survival. Lots of people have never eaten anything rare or undercooked in their lives.
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Mike
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| ReadyMcMeaty wrote: | | I think the nutrients would be there if part of the meat stayed raw as well. As for raw meat being neccesary (I include meat where the majority is rare in the same category), I think it is necessary for optimum health but not necessary for survival. |
Obviously we all think this, including me for many years. But where is the proof?
I doubt that this is true. It may be a myth. Cooked animal food may be better for human consumption.
Who knows? My body seems to get much more nutrients from cooked animal food than from raw animal food.
In six years I have not found ONE SINGLE old and healthy long term raw foodist. Many primal dieters became seriously ill after some years. And the others are detoxing and detoxing.
Mike
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WesleyT
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maybe we evolved into eating cooked meat?
how many years have we been doing it?
i've never eaten meat raw, but i know if i eat a rare cooked steak it feels like it gets digested so fast
who knows what i mean?
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Mike
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| Max Thunder wrote: | Mike, where did you read that about scurvy and Stefansson?
I'm very interested. |
You can find his statement somewhere in the first part of the text "Adventures in diet":
"Nor was the freedom from scurvy due to the fish being eaten raw - we proved that later. (What it was due to we shall deal with in the second article of this series.) "
This statement may be correlated to his hospital experiment.
Unfortuenately this takes only one year. But Wolfgang Lutz
mentioned that Stefansson was back on an all meat + fat diet
at old age for many years.
I have seen you on the yahoo list of Geoff Purcell.
What do you think why he recommends not to eat muscle meat on a fully raw paleo diet? Something is wrong with fully raw diets... I canīt help.
Mike
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Mike
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| WesleyT wrote: | maybe we evolved into eating cooked meat?
how many years have we been doing it?
i've never eaten meat raw, but i know if i eat a rare cooked steak it feels like it gets digested so fast
who knows what i mean? |
I can eat two pounds of raw beef at one meal and still feel unsatisfied.
Eating raw organs may be a little bit better, but not optimal.
After eating 1/2 pound of cooked beef steak (barbecue), I feel great.
Nevertheless I like the taste and texture of raw meat.
Mike
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bubbaM
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[quote="In six years I have not found ONE SINGLE old and healthy long term raw foodist. Many primal dieters became seriously ill after some years. And the others are detoxing and detoxing.
Mike[/quote]
Mike, that's interesting information about primal dieters becoming seriously ill after some years. Where did you find that information? I feel like eating like this is an experiment and I don't want to go on and on for years and then find myself sick. I did that with macrobiotics. I was in pain and felt grouchy for almost 7 years and my sister kept telling me it was because I was detoxing. No, my digestion was messed up and by the end I could hardly eat anything, my hair was a mess, I had lots of cavities, and was weak and tired. So far, cooked or raw, this diet is much better than macrobiotics, but I still am being more careful and watching more closely. Brklx does it raw and he is doing well. I just don't know what to do right now. One day at a time, that's for sure.
Bubba
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ReddyMcMeaty
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I wonder is it primal dieters following the diet to a tee? I am sooo not an expert but I have to wonder at the massive quantities of food perscribed on that diet... and if that contributes more to the detox symptoms, which might actually be overload and too much for the body to handle, than it being actual detox. Every time I've restricted food I've felt better. I have a feeling that intermittent undereating and overeating is a good thing but who really knows.
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Max Thunder
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| Mike wrote: | | Max Thunder wrote: | Mike, where did you read that about scurvy and Stefansson?
I'm very interested. |
You can find his statement somewhere in the first part of the text "Adventures in diet":
"Nor was the freedom from scurvy due to the fish being eaten raw - we proved that later. (What it was due to we shall deal with in the second article of this series.) "
This statement may be correlated to his hospital experiment.
Unfortuenately this takes only one year. But Wolfgang Lutz
mentioned that Stefansson was back on an all meat + fat diet
at old age for many years.
I have seen you on the yahoo list of Geoff Purcell.
What do you think why he recommends not to eat muscle meat on a fully raw paleo diet? Something is wrong with fully raw diets... I canīt help.
Mike |
I was under the impression that Stefansson ate raw meat? Do you believe that eating cooked meat won't cause scurvy as long as you don't eat anything else?
I'm not sure what list you're reffering to, I'm suscribed to a ton of lists mainly to look at the archives.
I believe the problem with raw meat, especially grass-fed or wild meat, is that it is too though. Organs are usually more tender.
There's a story about some arctic explorers getting intoxicated by vitamin A from husky's liver, they mainly ate that because the rest was too though.
I guess the idea is that primite humans ate more organs for the same reasons. The first scavenging "humans" probably ate a lot of brain and bone marrow too, using their intelligence to get them.
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Max Thunder
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I read that many primal dieters feel better once they include a bit of cooked food in their diet.
I'm also a big Weston A. Price fan, and he noticed that most primitive cultures ate some raw protein every day. But most of the meat was usually cooked. "Some" is the key.
I don't know the prehistoric methods of cooking, but I guess it was most of the time boiling and roasting of big pieces of meat, not frying or broiling in the oven or charcoiling hamburger patties on the barbecue...
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ReddyMcMeaty
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| Max Thunder wrote: | | I read that many primal dieters feel better once they include a bit of cooked food in their diet. |
Now that you mention it, yes I read that too on the raw yahoo group. Most of the successful long timers include varying amounts of cooked foods to feel best.
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brklx
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| ReddyMcMeaty wrote: | | Max Thunder wrote: | | I read that many primal dieters feel better once they include a bit of cooked food in their diet. |
Now that you mention it, yes I read that too on the raw yahoo group. Most of the successful long timers include varying amounts of cooked foods to feel best. |
It depends where you read about cooked food. There is Rawpaleo food owned by Geoff Purcel who is a very reasonable and knowledgeable guy, then Primaldiet group- none of thes advocate cooked food. And then there is AV Skeptics whose owner is somewhat on the fanatic and intolerant side. He hates AV and anything AV is for he is against and vice versa. So, consequently he is for cooking food.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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 the one I was talking about was the one with Geoff.
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brklx
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Geoff certainly would not touch cooked food.
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Mike
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| bubbaM wrote: | Mike, that's interesting information about primal dieters becoming seriously ill after some years. Where did you find that information? I feel like eating like this is an experiment and I don't want to go on and on for years and then find myself sick. I did that with macrobiotics. I was in pain and felt grouchy for almost 7 years and my sister kept telling me it was because I was detoxing. No, my digestion was messed up and by the end I could hardly eat anything, my hair was a mess, I had lots of cavities, and was weak and tired. So far, cooked or raw, this diet is much better than macrobiotics, but I still am being more careful and watching more closely. Brklx does it raw and he is doing well. I just don't know what to do right now. One day at a time, that's for sure.
Bubba |
I guess that contacts in Germany would not be very helpful for you.
Check the yahoo-groups about Primal Diet.
AV-Skepticism is very informative, "live-food" also.
Even in the group that is dedicated to PD followers you can find
several problem reports.
Be careful with raw dairy! Many people (like me) feel tremendous good
for the first months and after that several health problems occur.
Mike
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Mike
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| Max Thunder wrote: | I was under the impression that Stefansson ate raw meat? Do you believe that eating cooked meat won't cause scurvy as long as you don't eat anything else?
I'm not sure what list you're reffering to, I'm suscribed to a ton of lists mainly to look at the archives.
I believe the problem with raw meat, especially grass-fed or wild meat, is that it is too though. Organs are usually more tender.
There's a story about some arctic explorers getting intoxicated by vitamin A from husky's liver, they mainly ate that because the rest was too though.
I guess the idea is that primite humans ate more organs for the same reasons. The first scavenging "humans" probably ate a lot of brain and bone marrow too, using their intelligence to get them. |
No, Stefansson always preferred "well done" meat, whereas his collegue Anderson prefered medium cooked meat.
I never had scurvy and I am not a long term Zerco Carb dieter. So, I donīt have enough experience to be able to give you verified recommendations. But Stefansson was sure that cooked meat is suitable to prevent this disease and that you donīt need raw meat. Wolfgang Lutz (author of "Living without bread") has the same opinion. He is now round about 95 years old. He lives in London and was never on a raw diet. He has eaten cooked animal food his whole life.
I have been on a raw vegan diet in the past for round about 2 years. That was awful. This WOE definetely destroys your body. After that I included a lot of raw animal food. Everything was better. But for optimal strength and optimal brain function I need cooked animal food. Nevertheless I still think very often about possible benefits of raw meat. Most people who eat raw animal foods have been on a vegetable based raw food diet before and are not able to give up the "raw food wonder drug idea". The most healthy and stone old living people I have found (in Germany) eat ALL cooked animal food and no raw food apart from a little fruit.
I was thinking of "raw paleo diet" when I mentioned yahoo groups.
If muscle meat is too tough for us and liver is too toxic when eaten as a staple food, WHAT should we eat? Should we throw away the whole animal and eat only bone marrow, brain, tongue and kidneys? as some raw foodiest claim. How many oxes do you have to slaughter per week to feed your family? Something is wrong with RAF diets. Indeprendet from my personal problem that I canīt digest raw meat.
Mike
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RedTulipMoon
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Mike,
hmm..i find what you have to say VERY interesting! i have been eating paleo and recently decided to do RAW Paleo..now i am wondering if i should include SOME cooked meat..maybe just eat 80% raw. What do you think?
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Mike
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| RedTulipMoon wrote: | Mike,
hmm..i find what you have to say VERY interesting! i have been eating paleo and recently decided to do RAW Paleo..now i am wondering if i should include SOME cooked meat..maybe just eat 80% raw. What do you think? |
If Raw Paleo is fine for you, there is no reason to change it, IMO.
Most strict raw fooders show a strong desire for cooked meat after months or years.
I am still not sure if it may be true that cooked meat contains harmful poisons.
On cooked Zero Carb (which I stopped now) I felt like poisened.
On raw Zero Carb I didnīt have that bad feeling, but, unfortunately, my digestion always collapses with raw animal food.
Only small amounts are ok. But on Zero Carb small amounts are nut sufficient in the long run.
Mike
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adwred
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Mike, if both cooked and raw versions of zero-carb are giving you problems, what do you plan to do to combat this? How are you eating right now?
Red
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Mike
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| adwred wrote: | Mike, if both cooked and raw versions of zero-carb are giving you problems, what do you plan to do to combat this? How are you eating right now?
Red |
I stopped Zero Carb, I never felt worse. I am now eating carbs again, but only fruits. I feel and look much better again.
So, I am a happy looser here, sorry.
Mike
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Moronic_Pathways
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| bubbaM wrote: | [quote="In six years I have not found ONE SINGLE old and healthy long term raw foodist. Many primal dieters became seriously ill after some years. And the others are detoxing and detoxing.
Mike |
Mike, that's interesting information about primal dieters becoming seriously ill after some years. Where did you find that information? I feel like eating like this is an experiment and I don't want to go on and on for years and then find myself sick. I did that with macrobiotics. I was in pain and felt grouchy for almost 7 years and my sister kept telling me it was because I was detoxing. No, my digestion was messed up and by the end I could hardly eat anything, my hair was a mess, I had lots of cavities, and was weak and tired. So far, cooked or raw, this diet is much better than macrobiotics, but I still am being more careful and watching more closely. Brklx does it raw and he is doing well. I just don't know what to do right now. One day at a time, that's for sure.
Bubba[/quote]
i heard the same thing,their hair falls out,they have chronic diarrea,achy joints,chronic fatigue,and other ailiments that they didn't have before.I think the PD would be great for detoxing in the case of an emergency like a life threatening illness or something,but to eat that way for the rest of your life? i don't think so...i won't even eat all meat for that long either.i'd rather eat a mixed diet with veggies,some fruit and meats.i never been too much of a carb/sugary person til recently,but that's easy to stop..
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Mike
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| Nomadic_Pathways wrote: | Mike, that's interesting information about primal dieters becoming seriously ill after some years. Where did you find that information? I feel like eating like this is an experiment and I don't want to go on and on for years and then find myself sick. I did that with macrobiotics. I was in pain and felt grouchy for almost 7 years and my sister kept telling me it was because I was detoxing. No, my digestion was messed up and by the end I could hardly eat anything, my hair was a mess, I had lots of cavities, and was weak and tired. So far, cooked or raw, this diet is much better than macrobiotics, but I still am being more careful and watching more closely. Brklx does it raw and he is doing well. I just don't know what to do right now. One day at a time, that's for sure.
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It may be very helpful to check the yahoo-groups live-food, primal-diet, raw-paleo and av-skepticism.
In my own case I "detoxed" many months.
Today I know that honey, dairy and too much raw meat simply make me ill. Even vegetable juices are shit, IMO.
It was NOT a detox.
Mike
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