Intermittent Fasting Challenge

adwred · Intermittent Fasting Challenge

After reading Eades' last two blog entries regarding IF and this article: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/seyfriedInterview.pdf, I am extra intrigued by the idea. Anyone up for an IF challenge? I believe Nikki is doing one already and I, having not eaten anything yet this morning, am considering trying it.

NikkiLC

I'm in
i have done 2 days so far
eating till 5pm today as had to eat earlyer due to heavy training session

adwred

I think I'm going to make 7 pm my cut-off point. Then I can always eat dinner with my partner every day - one day it will be at 6 pm, the next it will have to be after 7 pm. I think that makes sense, schedule-wise. By the way, when you're fasting, do you allow tea or anything, or just water? I suppose it's not a fast, unless you stick to water! Unfortch, I had a black coffee this morning, but I suppose it's not the end of the world.

NikkiLC

from what i have read you can drink anything as long as it doesnt have calorties in it
so black tea or coffee would be fine

I think being flexable with the times is better

Viking Dan

I've been more or less doing this already. Ala the Warrior Diet, I eat one large meal in the evening and the rest of the day is water and coffee.

Its probably in one's best interest to precede the meal with exercise.

WesleyT

this is pretty interesting but i'm worried it will affect my muscle gains?

Scout Finch

I can start today as well. I have not eaten yet this morning so will forego food until 6 p.m.

I generally drink black tea during the day so I guess I'll keep doing that.

Thanks for starting the challenge, Red! Kiss

Scout Finch

adwred

Yes, actually that article (and Eades' blog) implies that studies on IF show an increase in athletic ability when intermittently fasting. I'm sure the effects are even greater if you time your eating/exercise properly (as Scout will).

Jesus, Scout... 9 miles? I'm getting a side stitch just thinking about it. Bonkers

You're a pro-star!! I wanna be able to run 9 miles. I'd actually settle for being able to run 1 miles.

I think I'll have an iced tea, too. Then we can look around surreptitiously and sip our tea together. Wink

Perhaps behind that potted plant?

Scout Finch

Red, you can build up to higher mileage. Go really slowly, though, so you don't get injured. If I recall, you are much younger than me (??29 - Smile

), so it wouldn't take you as long as if you were starting at an older age.

I'm finding my zero-carb limit on mileage is about 17-18, however. After that I'll have to start adding in carbs, like Gatorade or gummy bears or something else solid. I'm playing around with it to see what will work.

The I.F. thing really fascinates me, too! I guess we won't be "noticing" changes, however, if it is stuff like blood glucose levels, blood pressure, etc., unless it's lost weight, and I really don't want to lose any more weight. That has been one of my concerns about doing I.F., but I'll have to see how much food I can put away if I start dropping weight.

Is this a 2-week challenge???

adwred

LCforevah

I'm on my 4th 48 hour cycle since I started last Thurs the 14th, and I intend to do this until my doctor's appt in Oct. I really need to improve my blood glucose reading.
So far, I don't feel too different from when I started getting serious about zero carb and getting hold of the cheating five weeks ago. I can't use the new diabetes meds since I react to all of them, so I'm willing to use this for the next few weeks to get some improvement.

Drinking so much water,coffee and diet soda on the fast days can get boring, but hunger doesn't seem to be a problem.

Scout, read all the comments from the original dr mike post from the 13th. He answers everyone of them and there are alternatives to the one day on one day off thing.

WesleyT

thx guys, i gotta try this Wink

so should i work out/run on fast or eat days?

Scout Finch

Yes, you can work out on fast days. I ran yesterday (my first fast day) in the morning and then just didn't eat anything all day. I did fairly well, but by 6 p.m., my eating time, I was pretty hungry. Unfortunately, on carnivore you can't eat that much food in one sitting, so I ate less than I thought I would.

I ran 7 miles today and it went fine. Today is my eat day (until 6 p.m.), so I'm eating smaller amounts throughout the day to see if I can get in more food. I can't afford to lose any weight. Sad

adwred

Oh man.

Yesterday (fasting day) sucked so much ass, I can't even begin to describe it. Maybe my TOM was not the best time to decide to start this. Laugh

Anyway, I got through it.

Barely.

And then when 7 o'clock hit, I ate enough to feed a family of six. Seems funny that this would be good for me, but you never know...

Scout Finch

Red, I'm thinking the same thing. I started getting pretty hungry around 4 p.m. yesterday and felt like I could have eaten the wallpaper off my walls by 10 minutes to 6. I wonder if the emotional/physiologic/psychic stress of doing this undermines whatever benefits can be gained?! Has anybody asked Eades about this? I didn't see this mentioned on the blog.

For some reason, this fast threw me into a different mindset as well. Generally, I can go long periods of time without thinking about food since being carnivore, but yesterday, even though I wasn't that hungry through most of the time, I was thinking about food all day! Hmmm..... Sad

I was down 2 1/2 pounds this morning, obivously water weight from everything I drank yesterday, but I hope I regain it because I just can't get any smaller. I'm already a size 4, and I can't fit into a size 2 because I run and my thighs are too big to get into size 2 pants, even though they would fit around the waist. Sad

I'm willing to stay with it for 2 weeks, though, but since I didn't get any lab results when I started, I really can't gauge what the "benefits" would be, if there were any.

adwred

Well, IF is supposed to have the same benefits as calorie-restriction but without restricting calories. In the study, the rats or mice or whatever rodents they were ate DOUBLE the calories on their eating days that they would normally (I suppose to make up for the fasting period) and still benefitted in the same way that the CR rats did. So I guess it's supposed to be fine that we're eating so much on the eating days - just as long as we're fasting the rest of the time.

I, myself, did not lose any weight, but then I seemed to have no trouble eating a very large portion (a whole day's worth) of food in a 2-hour period. I literally had over 1800 calories in just over 2 hours. I was a bottomless pit. I question whether or not this will cause weight loss in me, even if it's good for me in other ways.

adwred

So I decided to change my 'cut off' time. Instead of eating until 7 pm today, I cut myself off at 1 pm and decided to fast for the rest of the day. I'll resume eating at 1 pm tomorrow. I think that will make it easier - I don't seem to have a problem just skipping dinner, then breaking my fast earlier in the day the next day, whereas going for the whole day without eating, then breaking fast at 7 pm is just too difficult. I think this will control my eating a bit more when I do break fast. We'll see if I do better on this schedule.

waywardsister

I've been doing this as well, almost a week now. So far, I've found I've eaten more carbs! Going back to zero for at least a week.

I have no idea how to gauge results, but I would like to see if this helps my bloat issues.

woof_woof

I think people love to make stuff more complicated then it should be.
If you on a high carb diet IF may have some benefits since at least for a while your insulin is lower.
But when somebody is on no carb diet I cannot see any reason why to set specific times when to eat. Just don't stuff yourself with pounds of meat and eat according to your schedule and hunger and you'll be fine.

Scout Finch

Woof, I don't think I.F. makes anything more complicated. Dr. Eades is well respected on the low-carb diet, and if he presents us with the research saying, hey, this shit on I.F. has some validity to it, well, I for one am willing to listen. I've been intrigued by the whole calorie-restriction thing for a while, even before going carnivore. However, like you, prior to this I always ran it through my head as, well, why do we need to fast or restrict if we are low carb? This is already super-healthy and "restricts" calories to some extent. So up until this time I wasn't really willing to try it.

There's an obnoxious kid on the ALC forum (??Whoa) who spends all of his time bragging about his "stats" and trying to make a case for a high-carb C.R. diet, which for me would NEVER work because of my blood sugar issues. Why he hangs around on that board is anybody's guess. As snotty as that kid is, though, he does post some interesting findings on C.R. However, I'm still not convinced that a high-carb C.R. lifestyle is all that healthy. I don't care what his cholesterol and blood sugar levels are.

But I'm willing to give I.F. a try. I'm sorry I didn't get any lab values, but I'm a "cholesterol skeptic" anyway, so cholesterol levels changing wouldn't convince me of anything.

Scout Finch

Oops, I also meant to check in on the I.F. challenge. Sorry. Wow

I didn't run this morning because I'm doing my long run tomorrow, which is an eat day. Normally I do long runs on Sundays, but I'm willing to change it up because I don't know if I can handle a 15-miler and then not eating food the rest of the day!

I'm also toying with changing my cut-off time, to something during the work day.

Today is a fast day. Yup

waywardsister

Woah is a reg on the IF thread there too Shock

But yes, he does have some interesting studies now and then.

I don't think IF complicates anything either. I've always had issues with overeating, fear of hunger etc that were related to my consumption of carbs (wheat in particular). Still have remnants though, and I find IF is helping me deal with them without having to get all touchy feely or medicated or read a Dr. Phil book. I've always had a near impossible time saying 'no' to food, but now I find it easy. This has been very freeing for me.

Okay yeah, and I like having a new food project!

Carolyn

I'm experimenting with IF (by eating an early supper and then skipping breakfast, so I'm going 18 hours without eating). I find that when I do eat, I don't eat more than usual to make up for my skipped breakfast. I'm also more aware of eating only when hungry. This is a big realization for me. I would eat because it was mealtime.

Dr. Eades blog talked about IF vs. CR. It seems to me that if you do IF, you end up doing some CR also. when you do IF, do you end up eating the same number of calories overall? I don't.

when you become a 2nd Initiate in the religion I belong to, it is recommended that you fast on Fridays - a full fast, a partial fast or a mental fast. I was doing the mental fasts but today decided to do a food fast. I was thinking of eating at 6 pm but wasn't that hungry and I couldn't decide what to eat so I decided to just skip supper and wait until tomorrow morning to eat. This is a full fast for me - no food all day long.

has anyone ever done CR? If one just eats 2 meals/day instead of 3 meals/day, without those 2 meals being larger than before, you've just cut your calories by one third. Eating VLC makes it easier to skip meals and/or to fast.

adwred

OK, the 1 pm cut off time clearly works much better than the 7 pm one for me. Today wasn't bad at all. Neither was last night. Today I broke fast at 1 pm and it was like any other day - I often don't really eat before 1 pm, anyway. I was definitely hungry, especially last night, but not so bad that I couldn't get by. Overall, calories are decreasing. I think that first day was a bit of an anomaly because of TOM and because the 7 pm thing wasn't working for me.

IF is getting less painful by the day. Lookin' good, Red. Cool

imsovain

adwred

I don't know about that. And as as person who has done a lot of fasting, both high carb and zero carb, I can tell you that high carb CR and IF is very difficult. And why torture yourself?

imsovain

imsovain

adwred

Not according to the running website I looked at! Maybe it's wrong.

Scout Finch

I see the problem with a high-carb C.R. plan as the same problem with a high-carb ad lib plan. Wouldn't people still have blood sugar swings because of ingesting what still could be large amounts of carbs? I think the ??Whoa guy mentioned what his carb intake was per day, but now I can't remember it. (And I hate going to that site, so I don't want to look for it.) It still seemed high to me, if I recall correctly.

Eades claims blood sugar gets stabilized on I.F. (and I guess it does on C.R. as well), but for me the problem would still lie in ingesting carbs in the first place. Even if there were weight loss, it would seem monumental to decrease calories while maintaining carbs and maintain that diet for a long period of time. And BTW, plans like Weight Watchers are restricted-calorie plans that include lots of carbs. And those plans are generally hard to stay on. (***results not typical***)

15 miles this morning, mostly trail, 2:36. Eggs, 2 hot links, and 4 huge glasses iced tea with lemon when I got back. I'm stuffed.

adwred

Ok, I ate off schedule today. I was supposed to cut off at 1 pm today, but didn't end up being able to, due to being away from home. Really, I'm still fasting intermittently, just not for 24 hour shifts. I had a very small breakfast this morning (not that hungry), then went 9 hours without food and just now had a very small dinner. I will get back on schedule after today because I don't want to mess up this experiment too badly! It's hard when you're out of the house and you're supposed to be eating but don't have any food around. Then you end up fasting from a different starting time than you intended and your timing gets all wonky. I won't sweat it too badly - I'll just get back on track tomorrow.

Embarassed

Viking Dan

Your blood sugar swings would be less on IF. While you're fasting your insulin resistance goes down. When you do finally eat (if its high carb,) it'll probably make you sleepy.

NikkiLC

i have stoppeed IF
it brought my eating disorders back Cry

Will explain more in journal

adwred

I sometimes get worried that IF will bring my ED back because long periods without food seem to make me enjoy the fasting. I just have to remember that a healthy amount of fasting is good for me, but not to get carried away. IF is certainly not necessary for good health, though, so good for you for recognizing the signals and making the choice to give it up.

imsovain

Yeah, as somebody who has never had an eating disorder, I think I can see how intentional fasting might lead to it. I've had 3 days of no eating. The days of no eating haven't been pleasant, but strangely, the day after I wouldn't say that I feel good, but the feeling of hunger seems to diminish a lot.

adwred

Ok, I admit defeat. I'm giving up on IF. She who started this challenge is abandoning it before the 2-week challenge is done! I haven't been feeling that well and I've been a little depressed since starting IF, plus I felt like my body was just really sluggish and not working optimally. I've written more about this in my journal. I'll still skip meals and fast occasionally, but I think I'll listen to my body and let it dictate which meals I skip, instead of forcing regimented fasts every 24 hours. It just wasn't working for me - I was thinking about food all the time and felt constantly deprived. Much of this could have been mental, but either way, it was unpleasant!

Go ahead, call me a quitter. Wink

I'm OK with it.

dhania

Viking Dan

I was thinking about IF and wondering if even lowcarb is insufficient to let very damaged insulin receptors heal/resensitize.

I'd be interested to try alternate day fasting (nothing one day, double the next,) but I don't want my strength training to suffer. Perhaps I could do two meals on the feast day and lift in between.

Ogden

How about some long term updates? Anyone still on IF? Alternating periods of IF with period of more regular eating? What's the scoop?

Dave

I believe the fad is dead! Yup

ReddyMcMeaty

I'm just too greedy at breakfast

Avalon

GreedyMcMeaty Happy

teknodamage

honestly this is something I've been considering to do for a long time... I suppose everyone fell off the wagon though. The hard part for me is figuring my workouts around fast days.

adwred

I guess I must still have insulin/blood sugar issues, because I just can't go that long without food comfortably yet.

adwred

I'd just like to update this thread, as it ended on a kind of defeated note. I'm really really grateful I gave IF another try when I felt ready. I've been doing it for 2 weeks (ish) and now it's totally and utterly effortless for me. I haven't felt this good in ages - full of energy and in a fantastic mood. Food just tastes so good to me and it seems to have 'reset' my appetite completely. I feel like a normal person, finally. I'm no longer obsessed with food.

BlackLabelSimian

I was just reading this thread and thinking to myself what a change in attitudes around here between Sept 2006 and now.

paleogirl

We've all come a long way. Yup

BlackLabelSimian

Avalon

Born Again!

BlackLabelSimian

Boondawgle

I've been pushing my break-fast to early afternoon. On the weekends, if I stay active, I can not eat until dinner time and not think about it, but during the week sitting at my desk typing away all day, I start to think about food around noonish. I can put off eating until 1-2, but if I try to go longer than that, my brain will trick me and I'll somehow end up eating some crap food.

adwred

Boondawgle, it takes time to adjust. I suggest pushing back your lunch by 30 minutes every few days or so until you're doing it outright. Some people need a longer transition than others.

The great thing about IF is that it really is the perfect (and most sensible) companion to zero/VL carb. It is the true paleo diet. The true human diet, as Bear says. It's all falling into place for me - as if I was missing a really integral piece of the puzzle until now. Yup

BlackLabelSimian

Now..

We hunt, gather and discover fire.

*Sharpens spear*

I don't practice IF as an eating plan per se, but I have always found that if I am distracted, I could usually give two damns about food anyhow.

jl53563

BlackLabelSimian

Belamae

My hubby and I started our No-carb and IF WOE nearly a month ago. We eliminated our breakfasts and pushed our lunches up an hour each day til it met up with our dinner time schedule. We both found it fairly easy to adhere to. We knew to expect cravings and hunger. Eventually tho, we found that a lot of our "hunger pains" during the day were psychological. Boredom or stress seemed to be at the root of the feeling for something to gnaw on. Once that was identified, it became easier to resist. The feeling of being "empty" was also a new experience. Drinking water would abate that some, but it was odd to feel at first.

All said and done, our energy is starting to come back. We have no issues with drinking nothing but water all day and waiting to eat til 6pm. We look forward to eating then, but it's not in desperation now, lol. I can go grocery shopping and not feel tempted or deprived. This is definitely working out for us. The only small issue will be when we travel, but as I have read here, there are many options there, too. Being a celiac and casien-intolerant couple, we have always had some issues in that department. This WOE actually makes eaiser.

Belamae

adwred

So what are the rules for each of you, during September? What does 'no cheating' entail? No carbs? No dairy? No sweeteners? No high-calorie days? Is there specifically anything any of you are giving up?