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Scout Finch

Interesting Findings on LC and Prostate CA

A friend of mine in Portland emailed me the link to this article which was in the Seattle Times recently. For some reason, when I was on the page where the article was, I couldn't find the link anywhere at the top of the page when I opened to the article, so I'm reprinting parts of it. I'll see if I can find the link later. Bold font is mine. This study was extremely small, so keep that in mind.

Quote:
Study links diet to prostate cancer
By Kyung M. Song

Seattle Times health reporter

Prostate cancer strikes nearly a quarter-million American men each year — more than any other cancer except skin cancer. But while scientists are still not certain what causes it, they suspect diet and obesity somehow play a role.

Now a very small clinical trial by Seattle researchers is offering tantalizing glimpses into that link.

The pilot study, involving eight local men recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, found that dramatically cutting back on dietary fats and carbohydrates and/or calories actually alters the levels of genes in prostate tissues that can potentially regulate cancer growth.

[T]he study, published Wednesday in the October issue of the journal Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention, suggests that whatever its cause, prostate cancer may respond quickly and markedly to significant changes in weight and diet.

Strikingly, the changes occurred after four of the men spent just six weeks on a low-fat, low-carb diet, said Dr. Daniel Lin, assistant professor of urology at the University of Washington and the paper's lead author.

"Imagine what could happen in four years or even 40 years," Lin said.

One explanation may be that body fat synthesizes hormones, such as estrogen, that raise the risk of certain cancers, Neuhouser said. Fat cells also trigger low-grade inflammation in the body, and that also could be a risk factor for some cancers, she said.

Lin cautioned that the latest study was extremely small and did not measure whether the cancer progressed more slowly among the men in the low-calorie group. Also, those men consumed an average of 1,500 calories a day — 40 percent less than the men in the control group who stuck to a "standard American diet" rich in fat and carbohydrates.

Researchers found significant differences in about 30 out of 7,000 genes in the two groups of prostate-tissue samples. Though few in number, Lin said the affected genes included important ones, such as genes that control cell growth or cellular repair, both of which can influence cancer development.
Avalon

It is very intersting. But what do they mean by-
Quote:
Also, those men consumed an average of 1,500 calories a day — 40 percent less than the men in the control group who stuck to a "standard American diet" rich in fat and carbohydrates.

Which fats? Which carbohydrates. If we are talking the Standard American Diet, then we know we're really not talking 'healthy' carbs. Most likely highly refined, proccessed carbs.

I find myself getting more and more upset at all camps of diet and nutrition- due to lack of clarity.

Here- High Carbs and breast cancer-
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/08/040806094822.htm
Quote:
In a case-control study of 1,866 women in Mexico, those who derived 57 or more percent of their total energy intake from carbohydrates incurred a risk of breast cancer 2.2 times higher than women with more balanced diets. Dietary patterns in Mexico are characterized by higher consumption of carbohydrates and lower intake of fat and animal protein than those in more affluent western countries.

But again, which Carbs? Which fats? We're probably not talking Brown rice and broccoli.

http://www.aicr.org/site/News2?ab...&page=NewsArticle&id=7586

Quote:
"Carbs Cause Cancer." Stories Get It Wrong

Early news reports of a study published in the February 4, 2004 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute have drastically and dangerously oversimplified that study’s conclusions. My colleagues and I are concerned that misleading headlines like “Carbs Cause Cancer!” will further confuse and frustrate a public that is trying to make simple healthful decisions every day.


At least with this one from 2002-
Quote:
STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN -- Swedish government scientists said new research conducted at Stockholm University indicates that starchy foods form high levels of a suspected cancer-causing agent, acrylamide, when fried or baked but not when boiled.

Government officials said french fries sold at Swedish franchises of Burger King and McDonald's, for example, contained about 100 times more acrylamide than the maximum concentration allowed by the World Health Organization for drinking water. Reports quoted Leif Busk, research chief of Sweden's National Food Administration, as saying the discovery was "new knowledge. It may now be possible to explain some of the cases of cancer caused by food."

There's a bit more info. "not when boiled" could mean life or death. But who hears that in the cry of 'Carbs cause Cancer'?

Good Morning Grin
adwred

Just a bit of an anecdotal tidbit, regarding your brown rice and broccoli question - one of my oldest friends has a mother who is a real 'health nut'. She does fresh juices, eats loads of vegetables and fruit and eats brown rice and whole sprouted grain bread, etc. No processed foods, no junk. Low-ish fat, but what she does eat comes from olive oil and avocadoes, etc. Oh, uh, she's a vegetarian, btw.

She has just been diagnosed with colon cancer. Everyone is so shocked right now. I keep hearing from all our friends 'how can someone so healthy get colon cancer?? She eats so much fibre!'.

Sad

Take from that what you will.
Scout Finch

Well, the prostate CA article had some confounding results, if you ask me. They did both LC and CR at the same time. After a second read-through, it looks like they also did low fat. Wow But it would be interesting if they had done LC or CR and not both. CR in and of itself is supposed to decrease tumor markers, so it seems confusing to do both in that they can't tease out the results of each factor.

And, yeah, it would be interesting to get a breakdown of exactly what carbs they did eat and how many grams of carbs were in the diet.
Avalon

I recently read an article which was thoguhts mostly, saying that cancer prevention had more to do with exercise than diet.

And I remember thinking years ago- what about Linda McCartney also, and the was a Grapenuts guy who's name I can't remember who had a stroke or heart attack...

God Speed to us all I say! ARRRRGGGHHHHH!
Scout Finch

Exercise is related to cancer prevention, probably in a couple of different ways. It is a preventive of colon cancer because the oxygen stimulation (??blood flow) from exercise moves the [ahem] fecal material through more quickly, thus preventing the pockets that form and whatever inflammation goes on there to cause the cells to change. I would say it enhances prevention against breast cancer in the sense that it can prevent obesity, which is a risk factor for breast cancer. Exercise disrupts insulin pathways and decreases insulin resistance, and if there are connections between cancer and insulin levels, then that is also a plus. It might enhance the ways in which hormones are utilized, and since hormonal fluctuations are one of the underlying causes of breast and prostate CAs, it might have some positive action there, too. But losing weight will also enhance hormone use because you will have less circulating hormones at a lower body weight.

I don't know about any direct correlations to cancer prevention through exercise except the colon cancer one. I think exercise just enhances overall body function through oxygenation and decreasing body mass, and maybe people who exercise "eat better," although since I'm not a proponent of the high carb diet, I can't say that that is actually true! Grin Eating more fruits and veggies to me doesn't equate to "better" health.
jl53563

Quote:
and the was a Grapenuts guy who's name I can't remember who had a stroke or heart attack...

Ewell Gibbons? (no idea if I spelled the first name right) "Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible." Laugh Ahhhh, that brings back memories from childhood.
Avalon

Doesn't it!

Wow, I didn't know this:

Euell died due to Marfan syndrome, with the result of an elongated aorta that burst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euell_Gibbons
jl53563

Avalon wrote:
Doesn't it!

Wow, I didn't know this:

Euell died due to Marfan syndrome, with the result of an elongated aorta that burst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euell_Gibbons

Well I guess I won't be eating any pine cones soon. Laugh
Avalon

Laugh Shock
kayleigh

adwred wrote:
fresh juices, eats loads of vegetables and fruit and eats brown rice and whole sprouted grain bread, etc. No processed foods, no junk. Low-ish fat, but what she does eat comes from olive oil and avocadoes, etc. Oh, uh, she's a vegetarian, btw.


Very interesting. This describes my dietary habits for 20 years of my life. I ate what was I was told was the uber healthy vegetarian diet almost identical to the woman described here except that for the first 10 years I also ate cheese. I miss cheese! I was often called a health nut. I was also eating mostly organic foods long before it was widely available because my family has a farm and extensive vegetable gardens with fruit trees. I developed a pre-diabetic condition at the age of 32. I've have had surgery due to ovarian cancer. I've also had a cervical cancer scare and some scar tissue on my colon that had to be removed. Fiber didn't help me there.

I should have listened to my father. He just liked to eat meat and berries and the occasional stinky rotten cheese called shankleesh. His baby boomer brothers are all of the low fat fiber and fish culture. One died of a heart attack, another has colon cancer and a third has just been diagnosed with diabetes. If I can't die in my sleep I think I'd rather have a full on heart attack. That seems like the least horrible way to go.

My vegetarian friends are all too young to have cancer yet but most of them are overweight. I think the problem is that there is a 20 year (or more) window for certain health issues to come up and the low fat mostly vegetarian population wasn't large enough in it's previous generation and isn't old enough in the current generation to realize the future impact of their diet. They are (or think they are) healthy now so that's all they think about. Everything else can be dismissed as an anomaly.

I still grow all of my own vegetables, fruits, and herbs but now I have no idea what to do with them all. I use the herbs and up until recently the leafy greens and artichokes but now it all goes into the compost. Smile
Avalon

Hi Kayleigh,
You rote:
Quote:
My vegetarian friends are all too young to have cancer yet but most of them are overweight. I think the problem is that there is a 20 year (or more) window for certain health issues to come up and the low fat mostly vegetarian population wasn't large enough in it's previous generation and isn't old enough in the current generation to realize the future impact of their diet. They are (or think they are) healthy now so that's all they think about. Everything else can be dismissed as an anomaly.

Sadly I say this can be said of Meat eater friends and Veggie friends. The world seems comprised of light and dark. Some like light meat, some like dark meat, some avoid meat completely. Some are lesbian Yup

There are so many variables, we may never know the correct combination. Avoid avocados, include avocados. Maybe a swiss cheese hunza bread combo? One thing left out or included? The Secret of Life!

It's not them or us as so many profess. They are ignorant etc. etc. It's acculturation times our parents parents parents friends parents divided by more parents. It's television and mass media.

Who do we follow when everyone claims to have a difference answer? A different Truth? Okay, say the answer is clear to you. For example, my Sister who I love is Born again. The answer is clear to her. Anyone not saved by Jesus Christ will go to Hell. I however do not believe all Hindus, Atheists and the rest will burn in Hell. And God forbid all should end up in the same Hotel, lobby... waiting for room assignments... Sadly she is morbidly Obese and I don't write this lightly. She has said more than once she will be happy to go to Heaven and as things are now, may go there before me. Or not.

The overweight is the clue. As I'm sure there are cigarette smoking carnivores and Vodka drinking carnivores- it gets a bit muddy. Vegetarians who eat nothing but cake and deep fried french fries are clearly not as health conscious and those that are overweight from brown rice are eating too much of it. More mud.

Your 20 year window might be small. But I agree we all may pay a price for our experiments in diet. 5- 10 -15 years?

Google after Google pulls up He said She said arguments. Book after book contradicts. We often live through example. Who live the longest and what have they been eating. Who writes a great book? Who wrote a book period.

Could my Mother have avoided three episodes of Cancer on Zero carb? We'll never know. I can't get her to stop eating ice cream or candy even though I've told her cancer feeds on sugar. In fact since she has been given the notice that she is cancer free X 3 she's eating more junk/processed food and continues to drink Vodka daily. Measured out X2(2 drinks) as if the Doctor said it was okay.

God Bless the Planet Earth!

Bartender!

Best wishes,
Avalon Happy
kayleigh

Hi Avalon.

Oh yes. Of course I have meat eating friends who are overweight and they believe many questionable things about nutrition. However, none of them believe that they are impervious to cancer.

The only thing I am clear on is that I am not clear on or absolute about anything. I am flying by the seat of my (almost size 6 now) pants on how I feel and what makes sense for now rather than what I know or what I am afraid might happen in the future. It's what I thought I knew for certain that always got me into trouble in the past.
Avalon

Dear Kayleigh, you wrote:
Quote:
The only thing I am clear on is that I am not clear on or absolute about anything.

This is one of the most Wonderful things I have read in a long while! I too am flying by the seat of your pants Laugh The more we know, the more pants we know Wow

How do you spell Laundry?

Grin
Avalon

Please forgive my ramblings. I was so toasted last night. Roll Eyes
jl53563

Avalon wrote:
Please forgive my ramblings. I was so toasted last night. Roll Eyes

Sorry, no toast alowed on this site. Laugh
kayleigh

Hah. Avalon. You crack me up. No worries. I enjoy ramblings, especially when I'm not the one who is rambling.

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