Eades updated blog post on IF

adwred · Eades updated blog post on IF

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmik.../intermittent-fasting-guest-blog/

Interesting. I've veered away from IF, naturally, lately. Not because I thought it was bad, but because if I listened to my body, it was telling me to eat when my IF schedule was not allowing it. And I've been trying to pay more attention to my body's signals, lately. Ignoring them is what got me into trouble in the first place!

I still IF, just not nearly as stringently as I used to. And not daily. It's truly random, now - I eat when hungry, which doesn't seem to follow any kind of schedule.

Avalon

Hi Red.

I haven't checked your link yet, but I guess it can be said, then, that you are truly Intermittent with the... 'F' word and stuff Yup

Hell, I just wanted to say Hi! Wave

adwred

Hi, to you, too! Wave

opticon107

interesting to see peoples responses to IF! I have veered away from it too lately, and I've also been trying to eat when hungry. But sometimes even that doesnt work out, like when I'm hungry in class and can't eat but as soon as class ends the hunger goes away. Actually, pretty much all hunger during the day goes away within 30-40 minutes if I dont eat right away. But I find if I ever eat breakfast, I will be starving ALL day long, even if its just a chunk of meat or eggs. Confused

So right now I'm experimenting with a 12-8 pm eating window and eating whenever hungry during that time, usually in 2 meals.

Nicola

I found this post on the Intermittent Fasting yahoo group:

Dr. Eades had a strange spin on IF from the start. In the post where he first suggested it:

How would you like it if I told you there was a way to eat pretty much anything
and everything you wanted to eat and still maintain your health? Or better yet,
what if I told you that you could eat pretty much anything and everything you
wanted and even improve your health? Would you be interested?…

There is a way to reduce blood sugar, improve insulin sensitivity, reduce blood
pressure, increase HDL levels, get rid of diabetes, live a lot longer, and still be
able to lose a little weight. All without giving up the foods you love. And without
having to eat those foods in tiny amounts. Sounds like a late-night infomercial
gimmick, but it isn't.

Well, it does sound like a bad infomercial, and I have no idea how he got the idea that IF would overcome the bad consequences of a bad diet to begin with. There's certainly no research I've seen suggesting anything of the sort.

So it's the failure of that strange hope that he's acknowledging now, but that has little to do with the reasons anyone on this group is trying IF. From Dr. Eades's current post:

... I looked at the IF as a strategy that allowed me to eat a lot of high carb foods
that I would normally avoid and not pay the health consequences for it.

And he no longer believes that's true -- which is a good thing, since it's almost certainly not true.

> ...
> Body builders are usually very
> strong, but they could probably be just as strong with less
> mass.

Honest: they don't care. Powerlifters care (for example, people who compete in Olympic weight lifting), and powerlifters do a different sort of training. They are in fact generally much stronger than bodybuilders while carrying less muscle mass. The sport of bodybuilding isn't "about" strength at all: bodybuilding is about aesthetic judgments, and fashions change across decades. Huge muscle mass has been judged desirable in recent decades, but things like symmetry and relative proportions also count (e.g., is the chest "too large" compared to the arms?). How strong or weak a bodybuilder may be plays no part in bodybuilding contests. OTOH, how much muscle or fat a powerlifter carries, and whether they're symmetrically developed or pleasingly proportioned, play no part in powerlifting contests -- those are entirely about peak strength.

> Bottom line: I don't think a 6-week study is enough
> to evaluate this kind of lifestyle. It seems to be working
> very well in real life for a lot of ordinary people, and
> their lab results are quite promising. I know for
> myself, I am a stronger, happier, have better
> blood numbers, and am skinnier. And am enjoying
> food more, sleeping better, and have no symptoms
> of low thyroid or anything else. What's not to like?

I'll speculate: Michael Eades and his wife, Mary, are both doctors, and had a private practice treating thousands of people for obesity, diabetes, and so on. The cornerstone of their approach was prescribing a calorie restricted, reduced carb, moderately high protein, high fat diet (BTW, their 2000 "The Protein Power LifePlan" book is quite a good read!). But anyone in the business of trying to treat patients via dietary changes is faced with huge compliance problems. If in fact IF provided a way to let patients "eat pretty much anything and everything [they] wanted" amd still get better, that would be hugely beneficial from their POV. That IF in fact does not provide that benefit is disappointing relative to that hope, but for most of the rest of us that hope was pretty much self-evidently unrealistic on the face of it.

Avalon

I've written this before, while trying the Up Day Down Day Calorie Diet- I was losing weight, but I was feeling guilty about what I was eating on those Up Days. That's no ones fault but my own. But the idea of eating anything I wanted was too inviting. Then again, maybe that's not what it said at all and I just imagined it one night while drinking! Toast

Good Morning!

Kristi31

I think it comes down to eating when you're hungry and on a low carb diet, especially VERY low carb or ZERO carb, you will get hungry much less, inevitably doing some kind of IF. We are making too much of this, in my opinion. Keep it simple and stupid. Listen to your body. Wink

Avalon

Kristi31 wrote:

opticon107

adwred

Spices, seasonings, additives, flavourings, processed meats, beverages like diet soda or coffee, MSG and the age of your meat can all affect hunger and are all things that people still often have on 'zero-carb'.

opticon107

ecrivain

This bugs me. In part one, he says...

Trem

opticon107

Avalon

The way things go we may find out tomorrow that we should be eating Snails for optimal health.

To the Journey! Toast

And I'm not drinking I swear Yup

but not around the Parents Grin

arizonasun

Opticon I feel the same way. I like reading these boards, but what holds true for others is not absolute. You can gain a lot of weight (fat not muscle) on zero carb and it is not as simple as cutting carbs. Listening to your body is hard to do now a days. First of all, if you have dieted in the past, your relationship with food is likely off. Plus triggers to eat are everywhere. I will say, for me, keeping the 80/20 ratio and a low protein level (strictly) has helped tremendously. When I really do feel full I can resist my mental cravings/desire for unneeded food (it's hard since I work at a grocery store).

opticon107

arizonasun

All that sounds like me, except my sweet cravings are more for chocolate coconut oil bark. I know it's a pain (and it's definitely a skill that I learned during my low fat days) but really break down calories and percentages. 80% is doable (even without dairy if you can get a supply of beef tallow, lard, etc) and I think it makes a difference, even compared to 75%. That and keeping protein grams to around 60 or so (really depends on height). Eating like that (with good ratios every meal) is making a difference for me. I never physically crave carbs (looking at them and going that looks good is a different story however.)

A lot of the time I eat in the morning and then at night (splitting protein/calories). That way I start out not hungry and I have something to look forward to when I come home. I IF too because that way when I do eat, I get to /eat/. Small meals are my downfall. For some weird reason, just a little bit of food is often worse than no food for me.

The other thing I've found is the TV really encourages eating (probably common knowledge but just to emphasize). You have food commercials and the fact that you are not engaged by the activity. This definitely encourages eating. I try to avoid watching TV but when I do I keep my hands busy. Or at least sip a noncaloric drink. Last resort (especially in class) would be to chew sugar free gum. It isn't great (ingredients are awful) and the carbs add up if you aren't careful. It can also stimulate hunger, although this hasn't effected me too much as long as my ratios are good, even on fast days. Keeps your mouth busy and off the fact that other people are eating. I got a Wii which I really like. Many of the games require you to be active (like tennis or boxing) and it's a fun thing to do in the evening with your family/friends instead of watching TV.

opticon107

adwred

So opticon, give us an average day's food, so we know exactly what you're eating (including beverages).

opticon107

barb0324

Opticon, maybe some tapping is in order? Wink

"Even though I crave the PB, I love myself deeply and respect myself profoundly" tapping your finger tips on the top of your head... around your temples... on your collarbone...

... seriously, it has helped me get over a pretty strong obsession recently ... Yup

opticon107

barb0324

http://www.holistichypnotherapyeft.com/EFTTechnique.php

http://www.emofree.com/splash/video_popup.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMFPFB1Ng8&feature=related

Yes, forgot where it was posted before, here are some links - give it a try, it really works, you don't have to even believe in it!!!

Good luck!

adwred

That and ditch the CO. It's very high in chemicals and is a very very common cause of hypoglycemia and rebound hunger.

opticon107

barb0324

I can relate... hope you feel better, Opti! Big Hug

opticon107

Avalon

I tried the tapping thing but I can't stand the echo x infinity! I TELL YA!!! Shock

Nicola

Opticon107, I am shore you are sick; it makes me sick to think of polishing off an entire jar of PB. Do you won't to end up like Elvis - he ate him self to death because he didn't work out that food, body and mind work to gether.

You have cutivated a diet, which is unhealthy, unnatural and you/me and others need to come to terms with our mental situation.

You have got a problem and only you can solve it; you can not expect from other people to hand you "the answer"! I don't know if you are the one with "acid reflux"? Well many people have had and have problems but things can only change, if you learn and follow what you feel might work. Nature gave you a system that will work; it's you and this world that muck things up. Forget what you see on the streat, on TV...Question it all!

Eat a basic paleo diet and learn to respect your body and mind.

Chuck out that rubbish you have; we don't need most of it! Natural animals get on much better (not just food) and don't have cubby-holes with PB or any of the other processed items we seem to need.

Now I feel better but feel free to continue your own life...just don't feel sorry when your body gives it's signs.

Avalon

Nicky wrote:

Trem

Nicola

I just won't to point out, what can happen; Elvis had all the money, he was admired for his looks (perhaps not so at the end) and the musik he made, but stuffed him self (with PB and other rubbish) because deep down he was Sad

,

...Life is not ment to be "light", we need to fall and get back on our feet.

Diet play's a big part because eating agricultur and prossed food will cause ill health in many way's. Some put up with it for a long time others look for answers.

There has been over 100 years of big business, our government, and the medical profession telling people that grains, fruits, and vegetables, as well as processed oils and high fiber foods should be the foundation for a healthy diet. The average person now believes this without question. Ask the average person on the streets!

How do you overcome all this propaganda that you've been taught since you were a small child? It is very difficult. Anyone who deviates to far from what is considered "normal" is labeled a quack. Any medical doctor that openly told his patients to eat only grass-fed meats would have his medical license revoked and probably thrown in jail. This happens all the time here in the USA. You just can't get to far from the mainstream propaganda or you'll be in serious trouble.

So what do you do? The best you can do is recommend less radical changes that sort of keep the current wisdom intact but just rearranges it a bit. You suggest that people should eat more meat and cook it a little rarer. The dairy lobby is huge and if you try to fight them you will come under attack so you recommend the least damaging dairy possible like butter and fermented products like kifer and yogurt. You see if you try to take away all the propaganda at once, people will reject it and you could get in serious trouble with the government - so you only recommend incremental changes.

It's also very safe to continue to recommend eating at least something from all the identified "food groups". That way if someone gets sick or becomes deficient in some nutrient, you can always point to the fact that you "recommended that people eat from all the food groups" and if they didn't then that is not your problem. If you didn't do this then you could be open to lawsuits that could destroy you - especially if you have some sort of medical or nutritional license to protect.

I think that if you actually think it through you will find that the idea that paleo humans ate large amounts of vegetables and fruits before we started cultivating them in the neolithic period just doesn't hold up under the light of truth. I'm sure that they ate some, but it certainly wasn't the foundation of their diet. Go out to any "wild" area where you live and try to find enough vegetables and fruits to sustain you as your primary food. You'll find it impossible. Try to find big fat sweet wild fruits or thick fleshy vegetables like you find in the markets. They just don't exist in the wild. What you'll find are small berries and small sour fruits that are only available for a few weeks a year, and most will be eaten by birds before you ever find them. The vegetables you'll find will be stringy and tough to chew plants that taste bitter. Try to find "wild" grain - it doesn't exist. The seeds of wild oats and other grain plants are small and almost impossible to separate from the chaff or husk - totally inedible

diet recommendations are driven by huge cultural biases and indoctrination from the time we are small children that are difficult to overcome. But if you look at the studies of what our ancestors ate, and research where and when our modern sweet fruits, mild tasting vegetables, and harvest-able grains came from, you'll realize that none of these things could have been part of paleo man's diet. Eggs would have been available only in the spring and then most of them would have been partly developed into small birds by the time they were found and eaten. As for dairy, can you imagine a caveman milking a mastodon? What would he have used for a bucket to hold the milk? The only tools found at paleo digs have been sharp rocks and sticks.

It is interesting that since most of our modern foods are not edible unless they are cooked, that we assume that it was the same during caveman times. Also, convincing people that their food must be cooked is the basis for much of our modern economy. There's a restaruant or fast-food place on every corner and almost all the food products in the supermarkets are cooked and processed in some way. Think how many people would become unemployed if everyone ate their food raw. The whole world would go into a huge recession as many of the bigest corporations in the world went bankrupt.

Open your eyes, question what you see and think of answers that will help you on your way! Keep a simple diet and you will learn to handle that food. Give your self lots of time between meals (IF) and try to do with out addictive foods and drinks. One can stimulate life with other activities than food and drink.

Smile

Nicola

opticon107

thanks for the advice/encouragement everyone, I know the PB is a huge problem food for me and I have decided that last jar was it. No more PB. I quit it before a couple of months ago for 3 weeks and had no desire for it until one day I decided to try it again because it was in my parents house and that was a BIG mistake. I know if I can stay off of it for a couple of weeks I will stop wanting it again, and I know I can't go back to it anymore now either.

trem - that interesting about the ground beef, although it is cheap and that kinda stinks Happy

oh well I'll just replace it with more eggs. By the way where do you buy suet? I don't really know how to make my own. I've been meaning to ask the butcher for some fat scraps though at my local grocery store because I think thats the only way to get pure beef fat. The closest thing I;ve seen to it in the meat section is beef soup bones with fat on them, which is really cheap.

Avalon - lol trust me I won't be touching the pb again so don't worry about that! That would be funny though. Pb was my drug of choice Laugh

Nicky - yeah I'm also the one with acid reflux. Probably irritated by the massive amounts of pb i can consume. I got it about 6 months ago though from eating too much sugar/refined carbs but that's history. I'm just trying to heal it 100% now. Fortunately L-glutamine supplements have been helping a lot with that.

Trem

^Any butcher I've been to has cut suet for me for real cheap ($1.20/lb here or in some cases for free). Most supermarkets even have it to...just ask an employee in the Meat section. I usually buy a big 12-16 lb. slab of ribeye every week at a wholesaler(Sam's club) and can even cut some fat off of that and use it. If you render the suet into tallow(fry on low heat for 30-60 mins) and put it in a glass jar, it can supposeably last as long as 20-30 years at room temperature. In an e-mail I've exchanged with Bear, he mentions that he's kept tallow in a jar for 10 years with no drama.

opticon107