| Archive for Active No-Carber Forums A veggie-free zone |
| Dave |
Dave's deleted IF thread...it just keeps goingplease delete thread |
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| Scout Finch |
Did you think "Kimkins" was "the latest fad?" How about Colpo? Do you think the advice in his ebook is the latest fad?
People in glass houses, and all. |
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| Dave |
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| Dave |
....... | ||||||
| Scout Finch |
Oh, for fuck sake, please stop. What exactly is your motivation in criticizing ANY way of eating?
My opinion isn't worth 2 shits, but I'll give it to you anyway: Your inability to lose sufficient amounts of weight in a long period of time, after many fits and starts with different "fads" and tries of your own on various plans, has left you frustrated, angry, confused, and insecure. It is simply easier for you to criticize the plans of others than do any serious self-examination of your own issues about your weight, the causes of your overweight state, and the solutions to it. Instead, those of us lurking in the on-line LC world are treated to a veritable hit parade of your passive-aggressive posturing, unrealistic and irrational criticisms of our own WOE, no matter how successful (or happy!) we might be on them, and your irrational belief system that includes a hilarious defense of the obese because of how folks are a) treated as children; or b) treated by those who count calories. You can't swing a dead cat on any of the LC blogs without seeing you popping up blaming everybody - and everything - else for your inability to lose weight. If I get flamed for saying this, or knocked off this forum, well, that's life. I'd like to see you start taking responsibility for yourself and your own weight issues instead of racking up excuse after sorry excuse for why you just can't seem to shed any weight. Yeah, life isn't fair. Some of us have it harder than others. But for fuck sake, take a little responsibility for yourself. You're a grown man (or so I assume--on the Internets, you never know). I suggest psychotherapy. A little time on the couch might be rather revealing for you. From all the posts I've seen - all over the LC Internets -your issues are running deeper than just climbing back on Atkins to lose the weight. |
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| Nicola |
For all those out in the world with a "life style" of thinking and handling like Dave; what has been said above should be used to give your self a bang and then to change some thing; it's all in the mind and can be changed!
Those words are worth gold; they may sound hard but take them to hart and get your mind on a better path. Thank you Nicola 
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| barb0324 |
Well, I have to say I totally agree with you Scout, and will take your words to heart, as well. Quite a few of us need to just stop complaining, find what works for us, buckle down and DO IT!!! 
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
Re: Intermittent Fasting is a a total fad
I have no idea what the Bear would think of anything, but he does say not to eat if you are not hungry. This is categorized as a fad by you because a lot of people are trying it out now, rather than because it is not a legitimate way to increase health, and because like many other concepts - you were not able to stick to it. I have an obese relative who I love dearly, who claims that Atkins is unhealthy and does not work because he and his spouse could not stick to it and went through induction flu, the week they tried it. How legitimate is that claim? It's unhealthy and made them feel sick beacuse of all the fat. I wanted to try IF in the past many time and mentally could not do it. I tried it again recently and it has been a Godsend. My life is very sleepless and stressful right now and it has improved the way I feel 100 fold. I believe in it 100 percent. I am sorry for your frustration Dave, and think you are a great person - from what I've seen around - but something is not a fad just because it didn't work for you. Not all men are mysogynistic assholes just because a woman has enough personal issues that she cannot keep one. |
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| Dave |
I think my time here is done.
Honestly I've had enough of the abuse from people like yourself. I notice I am not the only one you have spat a tirade at today. I think my biggest flaw is being willing to share my feelings and my not perfect reality. Perhaps I need to sit back and just spew out a good PR campaign and be perfect as shit. I don't share shit, to get judged.
Yes exactly, time for me to fuck off and have nothing to do with you people. I think Rob has done the right thing. I'll do the same. I'm not coming back. Yay I got what I deserved! You are welcome to your religion. |
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
Dave, it's not abuse. If you want to cry and vent without feedback then you must state that in your initial post...instead you offered your opinion and opened it to feedback, stating that you hoped it would be different from what you got over at the active lowcarber forums. It is hard to hear unpleasant truths and your feelings are hurt, but running off to find another forum to complain about how you were treated will not help you because you know in your heart that your actions/words invite that treatment. You can't help what was done to you as a child, none of us can, your parents chose things for you and you had no voice. Some of us had less abuse and some of us had a lot more Dave. The scars are there but you're the one deciding to stare at them and cry instead of live your life. You make your own choices now.
By the way, IFing has been the only thing..ever..which has given me a sense of freedom and control over my binging and compulsive eating issues...and I've been tring to get past them since I was 8 years old/ |
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| Avalon |
Meg
It's good to hear this is working for you. When I was doing it not long ago, I'm afraid I used the 'window' to eat the wrong foods. And though my weight was dropping/or stabalizing, I felt bad for eating SAD which is what I was doing. I love the idea of not eating all the time, once a day, a window of a few hours, but haven't reached that point yet. Perhaps I will try again. It's difficult when you're also exploring food options 
I'll be honest and say I was surprised that while I was away in July, IF took off. I remember when I was trying it 'Red, I believe mentioned how well it had worked for her before. When I came back you were all doing IF. Maybe this new movie version of the 'Body Snatchers' coming out is no coincidence Nahh, there's too much emotion 'flailing' about heh heh.
Count me in! Or not 
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| BlackLabelSimian |
And that's another thing...
Can someone tell me where in the blue fuck the rule is written that that fucking movie has to be remade every 20-30 years? 
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| jl53563 |
My memory may not be what it used to be, but I recall Bear saying it may be best to eat on a schedule, otherwise you may forget to eat just because you are never hungry. |
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| Nicola |
Dave, those words from Reddy McMeaty are words from a mother, the other words from a person who has had to lern (sport has does give you will power, not just IF...). Yes, we all get lot's of abuse right from the start; this is what forms what we think and do. There is always room for to change your negative thought's and understand those words as words of power to the better. That mean's not, that one person is "better" than a nother; it's more like what you can do, so that you feel good about your self. Every positive feeling; we have a lot of negative things to say about our self because that is what some of us have lernt.
If it's a help; I am under weight threw abuse but what does that matter when you can talk with others and find that it's all about life. We all have to deal with life. Belive me things will work; lern to belive in life. Get that good feeling in to your self. Some call it Sex others call it Sport; what ever, just get the feeling that you are worth some thing.
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| SaintAngerBH |
Isn't that what everyone here (myself included) did when the active low-carber place rejected our idea of zero carb? 
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| adwred |
Well, I missed this whole thread... But I can definitely get the gist as I also saw the ALC thread and was frustrated by it. I agree wholeheartedly with what Meg, Scout and Nicky are saying. 100%.
Dave, I have immense sympathy for you, as I had a hard childhood, filled with abuse, too. But I've changed my life - no person, plan or thing did it for me. Dave, rather than leaving, which is not what anyone here probably wants, why don't you use this as a springboard to change your life! Seek help! You very obviously can't do this on your own. You have a wealth of support here waiting for you when you chose to use it. You never seem to post when you're tempted to break down and eat something bad - you only report in after the fact with an excuse as to why you did it that seems full of hatred and blame (Jimmy Moore made me do it; zero-carb is too strict and unbalanced; people treated me like crap as a child; calorie-counters hate fat people; IF encourages binging and starving... etc. etc.). I think any of us would be happy to offer you any support you need (as some of us have in the past) in order to help you get on track. But Scout is absolutely right - you need professional help with this. You have too much going on under the surface - it's very obvious to me and I suppose to others here, too. The blame game has to end - now. It will get you nowhere, fast.
Ava, that same thing happened to me - I even had a few carb crazes in my first week on IF. But I never really gained any significant weight on it and then the cravings for the carbs and SAD type food went away entirely. According to Bert Herring (the doctor who wrote Fast 5), binges in the beginning are very common. But eventually, your metabolism, appetite and leptin sensitivity 'reset' and the urge goes away completely. I'm very much finding this myself. I have no trouble with binging at all and that has been my number one M.O. in life. Binging and starving. IF, I'm now seeing, is the cure for that. Which is why what Dave was saying on the ALC thread about some people having 'no business' doing it is just plain wrong. IF would probably help him immensely, if he transitioned to it slowly enough. But Dave, you have to get a hold on your emotional and blame issues before any diet will work. |
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| Scout Finch |
He reposted the link to the ALC thread and said he expected "better" from the folks here than the treatment he received on ALC. In other words, even though he comments in his own ALC thread that he's "not well liked" at that forum, he couldn't stand the heat and brought his fire over here. It was just a few insulting comments with the link. I should have quoted him, but I neglected to do so.
He responded to my Kimmins comment by saying that since he "tried" Kimmins, he had experience with "fads," providing him with even more authority to post his opinions about IF being a fad. Dave, I hope you come back here and keep posting. Nobody said weight loss is easy. I had fits and starts when I began Atkins. I also didn't take to IF right away and had to come back to it at another time. I've got other issues in my life where I make bad decisions or I fail at something, and have to pick myself up and try again - maybe do something differently, or just believe in myself a little more, or whatever. It happens to every one of us in innumerable different situations, depending on what our issues are. But I don't point the finger "out there" when it happens. You can't blame a diet every time you try something and it doesn't work. Anything you stick to will work. Did you even attempt IF? If you did, and it didn't work, then you weren't ready for it, whether psychologically or physically. Same with the Kimmins thing, or whatever else you have tried. What baffles me is that you had success in the past with Atkins but never got back on that bandwagon.  Instead, you appear to have spent your time "off the diet" blaming everything under the sun for your inability to lose and calling those of us who are successful followers of fads.
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| Scout Finch |
These are excellent points. If somebody is near a computer, coming on-line instead of binge-eating or bad eating is like walking into an A.A. meeting for an alcoholic. In fact, I would hope people use these forums for that purpose. I agree he can't do it alone. Maybe it's time for him to finally acknowledge that. The inordinate amount of time - apparently countless hours - he has spent on-line criticizing others or outsourcing the reasons for his inability to lose could have been better spent in introspection and self-examination. |
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| adwred |
Dave, if you're still reading this (and I hope you are), I saw your response at the ALC thread about us launching a tirade against you that was even worse than how people treated you there. That is simply not true. No one, here or there, has abused you! You really need to face reality, here, man and quick.
First of all, people do not take kindly to having their WOE criticized by someone who has clearly never read one study or book about it! You even went so far as to imply that IF and CR are one in the same and that the proponents of IF encourage calorie counting! That right there proves you have not bothered to even read up on the subject that you're so busy saying isn't right for everyone and is a 'complete fad'. Read the bloody book! Here - the link. http://www.fast-5.com/Fast-5-ebook100.pdf Here - the yahoo groups. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/fasting/ and http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/fast5/ Secondly, we are trying to help you! Please see that! Stop being defensive, stop accusing people of things they're not doing and open your eyes. |
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| Scout Finch |
Dave, you can borrow one of my hats if you want!!
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| Cavemate K |
That avatar's teeny. Which one's you?! | ||||||
| ReddyMcMeaty |
I don't know why you're here, most of us are here to talk about food in a zero carb friendly environment. Our posts that were zero carb positive were being deleted, and we were being banned. Starting a place to chat because you're banned is a far cry from running to another forum to cry about how badly you were treated in one. |
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| SaintAngerBH |
Meh. I disagree, but that's not a shocker... | ||||||
| Scout Finch |
Neither one! But you can borrow a hat too, if you like!
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| adwred |
What exactly don't you agree with? |
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| Cavemate K |
Thank you!  The hat on the right reminds me of those flowers that we used to hold under our chins when we were kids in order to see the yellow glow. Ah, memories...
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| Scout Finch |
We should have suggested that Dave take his opinions about IF to the source and ask Eades directly about it. Especially because some of his comments were to the tune of "This fad is occurring because of Eades' IF post." Pretty bad. 
But he would have refused to do that, of course. Which is indicative of some other underlying motive for posting it. |
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
He just doesn't agree. It's the principle. My almost 2 year old does the same thing. |
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| BlackLabelSimian |
No offense, but who really cares in a way? Truthfully, Bear probably doesn't give two shits about it. He's found what works for him and told other people about it. That's great and I applaud him sticking to his guns even under the heavy fire he's taken in the past. His words obviously struck a chord with some people and led them down a successful path. But...Other people have obviously found what works for them too and that's great. Whether it be specific foods (i.e. Red and her egg challenge) or IF (Red, Meg and pretty much the rest of the damn forum. lol)...They have taken Bear's original concept and suited it to their own needs and that is also excellent, IMHO. It strikes me as a bit funny that some people kind of hang on Bear's every word like he is some sort of supreme deity and yet they don't even really follow his teachings...They just use them as an excuse to deflect and bash a successful concept that is working for others. Or hide behind the theory that Bear probably wouldn't like it and therefore, it must be useless shit. That's a cop out. Take some responsibility for your own lifestyle, use what works for you, reject what doesn't (Paraphrasing Bruce Lee...Sorry. lol) and stop pissing on everyone else's parade and screaming that they are the ones treating you like shit. It's a two-way street. Support can come in many ways...Sometimes one needs or deserves sympathy and other times, they need a kick in the ass and a not-so-pleasant dose of the truth. I've had times where I've needed the dose of truth and while I didn't like it at the time, I knew after some soul searcing and a reality check, that it was truly required at the time. And on the topic of Jeff's reply...I believe Bear did say it was easy to forget to eat sometimes, but I would say with IF that your body will truly tell you when it needs the nourishment. But yes, I believe you are right in citing that as something Bear said. Cheers! And if this post gets me the boot, so be it. I wasn't truly going out of my way to offend anyone just fot the hell of it. |
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| Avalon |
while searching the internet on raw food, I landed here. From day one I felt welcome here. I was having trouble over at WaiTalk- same thing, posts being deleted. The politics and hypocrisy drove me to officially leave that forum. You could not question over there without having posts deleted. God forbid, Wai doctrine should be questioned. I don't think it was always that way. When Wai, herself was involved the atmosphere was encouraging and inspiring. Then her Rude Dictatorial Boy-friend took over and ARRRGGGHHHH!!! Walk the Plank! But I'm sure they'll tell it different I wasn't banned. I was threatened though then I quit! HA! on them!
God Bless Everyone |
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
k I stand corrected on what the bear said 
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| BlackLabelSimian |
Please? 
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| adwred |
Um, it wasn't you who corrected her! |
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| BlackLabelSimian |
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| Scout Finch |
Sim, really good points in your post (the one without the devil head). Up above, I mean.
When I couldn't remember the name of the "fad" diet that Dave tried, I went searching for it (that Kimskin thread). And meg made some interesting comments in there about fat loss and body fat use during dieting and such. Bear might be saying eat on a schedule even if not hungry, but for somebody like Dave, carrying significant amounts of body fat, I would think that not eating unless hungry is really the way to go, rather than scheduling your food, because the ketosis will always use up your body fat stores, and that is what you want when losing. Hate to say it, but something like IF is probably ideal for Dave - anecdotally, it seems to help for folks whose limbic hunger takes control. If one has fallen off the Atkins bandwagon, it stands to reason that the limbic thing may have kicked in to some extent. The limbic hunger thing still leaves me in awe. I can't believe I had never heard the term before Fast 5!!
Fad Finch 
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| BlackLabelSimian |
Did he have science behind it? Probably not much, but it makes sense. He listened to his body. Same with the Spartans...They ate, but not to the point of being stuffed from what I have read. I think there is something to be said for staying a bit hungry not just physically, but mentally as well. The above probably makes no sense to anyone, but it does to me. lol |
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
Being a little hungry makes you feel alive. Food is really a sedative. I think that eating all day long is just sedating you all day long and for some people who have food issues, it just provokes more eating because you lack the ambition for anything else. I've noticed that while IFing, when I have an empty stomach I am productive. Not only do I physically feel energetic, but my mind want me to get things done and tells me to get up and move. After I've eating I lose ALL ambition, regardless of how much I wanted to get something done before I ate. | ||||||
| copychick |
red, i am totally same way. the only time i have energy and motivation is when my stomach is empty and i am feeling the 'drive' of a little hunger. only being very hypoglycemic, it is hard for me to tell when the hunger is 'real' or when i am letting it go too far. soon enough, i become manic, start trembling and end up passing out on my neighbors couch. | ||||||
| adwred |
Copychick, I was the same way, but my hypoglycemia would appear to be gone now. It's a slow adaptation period for some. You don't go whole hog into it if you have hypoglycemia. You just push your fast-breaking meal later and later in the day in 30-minute increments (or even 15 minutes, if 30 is too much), until suddenly you're skipping breakfast. And then skipping lunch. It's quite easy if you do it gradually. And seriously. No shakes. No anger. No nothing.
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| copychick |
thanks, that's good to hear. i was thinking it wasn't gonna be possible for me, but i realize i just need to be much slower and gentler about it. as a former hypo did you have extreme reactions to caffeine at one time too? | ||||||
| Jaybird |
Dave, I didn't see the original post...just all the replies. This past year I have gained back some weight, and I can relate to that kind of frustration. Blame really is not the answer, that is for sure. And I don't just mean blaming others...I bet you are feeling a lot of guilt and regret, and blaming yourself for not sticking to a plan. I know I have felt that way a lot over this past year, and I've come to realize how important it is to work on myself. I didn't have a pretty childhood, I've been overweight most of my life. We can't get our childhoods back but we can work on who we are now! You succeeded with Atkins before so I'm sure once you decide to do it, you will do well on it again. Don't get stuck in that vicious cycle of blame-shame-regret. I remember you mentioning here and there that you practice meditation, so I know you are probably very familiar with how much our thoughts effect our actions and our lives. If you look at it that way, you can probably see how maybe posts that call a perfectly good WOE like IF a FAD could be sabotaging you more than anyone else. You are focusing on a negative aspect, on the fact that it didn't work for you. Focus on what works for you Dave, focus on your success. | ||||||
| adwred |
Absolutely, but that seems to be disappearing, too. I used to only be able to have instant decaf - everything else was too high in caffeine and salicylates. Now I can drink regular coffee, no problem. Diet pop, too, no longer triggers rebound hunger. It's kind of weird, actually. All this stuff that used to really affect me doesn't anymore. I think part of it is just knowing that if I hold out for another xx hours or minutes that I can eat to my heart's content. I have 1 or 2 cups of black coffee every day now, in the morning - to feel like I'm having something for breakfast. I don't have any ill effect from it, from what I can tell. It's more for the ritual than anything else. I feel 'buzzed' on IF, caffeine or no caffeine.
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| Scout Finch |
Great post jaybird. Really great post.
We've all got our demons. 
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| BlackLabelSimian |
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| Avalon |
If I were Ifing I can see how coffee would be nice to have, only I'd want it with half and half. For now though I'm glad that, at least is not calling to me. | ||||||
| ReddyMcMeaty |
I cheat. I always have an egg coffee in the morning, and sometimes another smaller one at noon if it's one of those days that I actually have to think and seriously plan for a way to not kill my older son between the time he wakes up from his nap to when his father gets home. | ||||||
| ReddyMcMeaty |
I cut this thread where it went off topic and moved it to the discussion forum. Please continue to post relatively on topic for this thread, or continue in the other one. | ||||||
| woof_woof |
I tried to eat on schedule regardless of hunger and it made me feel sluggish even with no carbs.
Now I make sure to be really hungry before a meal and it works perfect. BTW I thought dairy makes me constipated but it doesn't seem so when I eat only when hungry. Strange. |
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| ReddyMcMeaty |
I've read things like dairy not bothering people as much when they eliminate salicylates, salicylates not being as troublesome when IFing... I think that many times problems are caused just because the body is overloaded, and everyone's load tolerance is different. Take off some of the load, by eliminating chemicals, reducing food intake, or IFing or by some other means and your body can better handle stress or whatever you want to call it, from food and other things. | ||||||
| woof_woof |
Makes sense. I've read somewhere that people with food allergies could tolerate the problematic foods when they had only one meal a day. | ||||||
| Scout Finch |
What's interesting about this is that inflammation, which Eades said is caused by eating, affects the immune system. So it kind of makes sense that if you don't ingest as much food as frequently as you normally would, you could improve your immune responses, which is basically underlying allergic reactions. |
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| Nicola |
It would be interesting to know what you think about Bruces (AV-Skeptics yahoo) understanding (I know he got it from the scientific debate forum / Ray Peat) of cause for inflammation... | ||||||
| Scout Finch |
Do you have a link for that, Nicky?
This whole issue of inflammation is quite interesting. It's probably a good thing that I backed off my long run every week, because apparently over-vigorous activity like too much running can cause inflammation as well. Inflammation seems to be the culprit in a lot of disease states. Does hyperinsulinemia cause inflammation? Or the other way around?
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| Nicola |
Bruce is talking about inflammation as a result of not eating saturated fat in the right form and the damage which PUFA's make. I have also mentioned this under "carnivorous-skeptics". I hope that Mr. Groves will post his opinion to Bruce (Bruce is having a go a every one and every thing).
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV-Skeptics/ |
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| dhania |
sounds like a plan. I will give this a try soon when I am off the serious carb detox... makes sense, to adjust slowly instead of going cold turkey (or cold feet rather, for me & my hypoglycemia ) Last time I tried IF it just made me cranky like hell. Now since my SO eats his main meal in the evening it would make sense to push my eating window (slowly) to that time so we can have dinner together and have coffee in the morning. We'll see.
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