bigsea
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Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term..Bear doesn't look healthy in his wikipedia picture. by that time, hes already been following this WOE for a LONG time, so he should paint a picture of how this WOE works long-term.. unfortunately he paints a bad picture. he doesn't have good hair or skin, and his hairline has receded.
its things like this that make me wonder just how healthy this is long-term. any thoughts?
my thoughts on this are varied. i definitely keep in mind the fact that he only eats beef as his meat of choice, he doesn't eat pork.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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I'm not really concerned about how the bear looks. Food is not the only factor in how a person looks, and to me this type of diet is about feeling healthy, strong and happy for the biggest part of my life, rather than looking 40 when I am 75. Most people seem to find that it affects their physical appearance positively.. IMO that is a bonus, not the sole reason to follow it.
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SaintAngerBH
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | bigsea wrote: | Bear doesn't look healthy in his wikipedia picture. by that time, hes already been following this WOE for a LONG time, so he should paint a picture of how this WOE works long-term.. unfortunately he paints a bad picture. he doesn't have good hair or skin, and his hairline has receded.
its things like this that make me wonder just how healthy this is long-term. any thoughts?
my thoughts on this are varied. i definitely keep in mind the fact that he only eats beef as his meat of choice, he doesn't eat pork. |
Yeah. Considering that Bear did copious amount of acid and various other drugs as a soundman for the Grateful Dead, I would think that would have a little more to do with him not looking "the part" on this diet.
Drugs (pot not included) age you faster than hyperinsulinemia ever could.
Frankly I don't give a damn how he looks. I know how I feel, and I know how I look. I look ALOT better than I did before, and I feel like a million bucks.
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adwred
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I'd say attitude ages you, too. Sour people look sour and old. Happy people look happy and young. 
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SaintAngerBH
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| adwred wrote: | | I'd say attitude ages you, too. Sour people look sour and old. Happy people look happy and young. |
Apparently....
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adwred
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Sorry, not sure I'm following you, SaintAngerBH...
Really looking forward to seeing your picture, btw.
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SaintAngerBH
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| adwred wrote: | Sorry, not sure I'm following you, SaintAngerBH...
Really looking forward to seeing your picture, btw. |
Well considering I'm 23 years old, I doubt my picture would be a good indicator.
Hey, just because I listen to metal doesn't mean I'm an angry person.
Quite the contrary.[/img]
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woof_woof
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I'm looking at least 5 years (some say even more) younger but I've got no idea if there is any connection between my appearance and diet since I followed many crazy diets (used to be my hobby).
I don't care how I look only how I feel. If this diet gonna kill me prematurely it's fine.
I don't agree about drugs always aging you fast. Some do some don't. Depends on 100s of factors. Have you seen Iggy Pop on stage? I think he's 60 now.
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SaintAngerBH
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| woof_woof wrote: | I'm looking at least 5 years (some say even more) younger but I've got no idea if there is any connection between my appearance and diet since I followed many crazy diets (used to be my hobby).
I don't care how I look only how I feel. If this diet gonna kill me prematurely it's fine.
I don't agree about drugs always aging you fast. Some do some don't. Depends on 100s of factors. Have you seen Iggy Pop on stage? I think he's 60 now. |
Yeah true. I'm talking more like meth level. Ecstacy, meth, acid....those are really hard on your body.
Cocaine...could go either way. Mary Jane though, the only thing bad about mj is smoking it. If you get it any other way...humidifier...eating...drinking or whatever...it's actually got anti-aging properties. Anti pain, anti cancer as well.
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Scout Finch
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| woof_woof wrote: | I'm looking at least 5 years (some say even more) younger but I've got no idea if there is any connection between my appearance and diet since I followed many crazy diets (used to be my hobby).
I don't care how I look only how I feel. If this diet gonna kill me prematurely it's fine.
I don't agree about drugs always aging you fast. Some do some don't. Depends on 100s of factors. Have you seen Iggy Pop on stage? I think he's 60 now. |
Come on woof - you think Iggy Pop can't afford a good plastic surgeon? 
That's probably the genetic thing coming into play too, but I've got an n=handful of folks I know who went through the Summer of Love here and look like crap these days. One has alcoholic cirrhosis and probably won't live another year. These folks smoked and dropped acid with Janis and were probably partying with the dead and the bear while he was living here.
Genetics is going to play a role in how any of us age. However, I'm sticking with zero carb because we already know that insulinemia changes your "real age" to something like several years older than what you really are. It also affects collagen levels in the skin, which would cause more wrinkling.
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RamataKahn
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Where on his wikipedia are you seeing picture of him? I'm not seeing it.
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Scout Finch
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RamataKahn, if you google the bear's real name (it escapes me at the moment - Owsley something? - it's here in many of the threads anyway), he has a website, and I believe his pic is on that site. Probably if you google Grateful Dead Owsley you'll find something there.
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cicley
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A pic apparently from 1999.
I think he looks pretty good for a guy in his sixties whose done a lot of drugs, has spent two years in prison, and has had coronary artery disease since his teens.
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Sandi
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I think he looks good too
I should look as good
sandi
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Viking Dan
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| SaintAngerBH wrote: | | Hey, just because I listen to metal doesn't mean I'm an angry person. |
Of course not. I do my evening yoga to the soothing strains of Slayer's Reign In Blood.
Anywho, I also think the Bear looks great for his age.
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Dave
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | bigsea wrote: | | Bear doesn't look healthy in his wikipedia picture. by that time, hes already been following this WOE for a LONG time, so he should paint a picture of how this WOE works long-term.. unfortunately he paints a bad picture. he doesn't have good hair or skin, and his hairline has receded. |
wth? That is so subjective!
Wth does hairline have to do with anything?
I know 20 year olds with less hair than the bear.
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Galeron
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I agree. For someone in his 60s, he sure does seem to have maintained a healthy muscular physique (broad shoulders in photo).
I also know a lot of very young guys (at work and such) that have very thinning hair, and receding hairlines.
You also have to keep in mind that the lighting was probably terrible for the photo, the caliber of the camera used to take the photo, and also, perhaps he hadn't had much sleep the night before or something. You can tell that the photo is color imbalanced. There are a lot of things that could explain his less than celebrity-fresh/made-up appearance.
It's easy to place him on such a pedestal, being sort of a father of no-carb., making you envision some god-like figure that is at the peak of health. But the reality is, there is no fountain of youth, although no-carb. is about as close you can get, IMO. You can't keep your body from aging all together.
I'd rather think of his visual age as more of a sign of being 'distinguished' and 'wise' rather than unhealthy.
The quality of the photo is just not good -- you can tell there is a dominance of pink/red in the color scheme, making him look a little off.
I think this is a little better (on the left). He doesn't look as tired now. All I did was balance the color scheme/levels - no digital botox:
 
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bigsea
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | Dave wrote: | | bigsea wrote: | | Bear doesn't look healthy in his wikipedia picture. by that time, hes already been following this WOE for a LONG time, so he should paint a picture of how this WOE works long-term.. unfortunately he paints a bad picture. he doesn't have good hair or skin, and his hairline has receded. |
wth? That is so subjective!
Wth does hairline have to do with anything?
I know 20 year olds with less hair than the bear. |
it has to do with EVERYthing, you see.. feeding our bodies with the optimal foods designed to be fed to us, we would not get receding hairlines, we would maintain beautiful hair.
this is my life, you are damn fucking right im going to look at the (meant to say "person who made the diet widespread in modern times") of my diet and see how he looks.
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Scout Finch
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | Quote: | it has to do with EVERYthing, you see.. feeding our bodies with the optimal foods designed to be fed to us, we would not get receding hairlines, we would maintain beautiful hair.
this is my life, you are damn fucking right im going to look at the "father" of my diet and see how he looks. |
Sorry, but you are wrong on the hairline stuff. Whether a man loses his hair is a recessive trait on the maternal side of the family. If your mom's dad was bald, or somebody on her side of the family is bald, it is highly likely you will also be bald. There's not much you can do in the way of diet to prevent this from happening. Receding hairline - same thing. You might not lose it all, but you have a higher chance of losing some or most of it if this is the case. If it bothers you, look into hair plugs. Maybe a little crop rotation on your forehead will keep your ego intact. 
I'm dating a 60-year-old guy who has more hair than either one of his sons, and they are both in their early 20s. Actually, he's probably got more hair on his head than both of them put together. They are still incredibly attractive young men.
Bear is not the "father" of this diet. If you want to slap that ridiculous label onto anybody, it would probably have to be Mackarness or Steffansson. Or maybe someone we don't even know about. Or the Inuit. Saying bear is the "father" of this diet is like saying Reagan is the "father" of our country.
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golooraam
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term..[quote="Scout Finch"] | Quote: | | Saying bear is the "father" of this diet is like saying Reagan is the "father" of our country. |
even though I am pretty far right, I thought your above quote was quite funny and clever, well done...
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Dave
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | bigsea wrote: | | Dave wrote: | | bigsea wrote: | | Bear doesn't look healthy in his wikipedia picture. by that time, hes already been following this WOE for a LONG time, so he should paint a picture of how this WOE works long-term.. unfortunately he paints a bad picture. he doesn't have good hair or skin, and his hairline has receded. |
wth? That is so subjective!
Wth does hairline have to do with anything?
I know 20 year olds with less hair than the bear. |
it has to do with EVERYthing, you see.. feeding our bodies with the optimal foods designed to be fed to us, we would not get receding hairlines, we would maintain beautiful hair.
this is my life, you are damn fucking right im going to look at the (meant to say "person who made the diet widespread in modern times") of my diet and see how he looks. |
Big Sea, Bear only went zero carb at age 23, after battling the overweight.
Maybe damage has already been done?
I have a very full thick set of hair, like my grandfather had up until is death. Whereas my father has thin type of hair. Not quite balding.
I do not think I am a poster boy for having eaten the right diet or my life. My hair is genetic and I will never go bald.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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Just chiming in on the hair bit, my non bio grandfather had the most beautiful head of hair up until the day he died of a lung disease which had eaten at him for over 30 years, he had other conditions as well. My bio dad is the most unhealthy and disease ridden person I have ever known. Ever. Special rare gentic diseases, all common ones, illnesses.. and he's got great hair. No doubt he'd be much healthier on zero, or at least low carb.
When you see a woman who has unhealthy hair it often times has much to do with stress, diet (ok here we go the diet helps a lot) but also hormonal things which can be out of her control.
Go ahead and look at how the Bear looks bigsea, but don't you think it is more important to experience how the diet makes you feel? He could be an Adonis, but if I felt like shit I would not bother to eat this way.
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adwred
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My father went bald when he was 23 and grew up in rural Scotland eating a very healthy traditional diet (before most processed foods were even invented). His diet consisted of pork, beef, lamb/mutton, lard, milk, oats, potatoes and a bit of carrot and onion, primarily. About once a year he ate an orange on Christmas (if he had been good). He was also a boxer as a young man and had seriously an Adonis body. Cut to shreds. And completely bald. My mother's dad went bald when he was in his very early twenties. My brother went bald when he was 25.
It's genetic.
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Galeron
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | Scout Finch wrote: | | Bear is not the "father" of this diet. If you want to slap that ridiculous label onto anybody, it would probably have to be Mackarness or Steffansson. Or maybe someone we don't even know about. Or the Inuit. Saying bear is the "father" of this diet is like saying Reagan is the "father" of our country. |
Scout, I think you knew what I meant. Might I point out that I said 'sort of a father of no carb.' In a different context he could be perceived as a 'sort of' father of no carb., certainly in regards to this forum, for example. 
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Cavemate K
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | Scout Finch wrote: | | Saying bear is the "father" of this diet is like saying Reagan is the "father" of our country. |
I thought Steve Garvey was! Damn... I guess that joke's a little out dated.
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adwred
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I love the double lion avatars!!
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SaintAngerBH
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Re: Bear doesn't make this WOE look nice long-term.. | Scout Finch wrote: | | Quote: | it has to do with EVERYthing, you see.. feeding our bodies with the optimal foods designed to be fed to us, we would not get receding hairlines, we would maintain beautiful hair.
this is my life, you are damn fucking right im going to look at the "father" of my diet and see how he looks. |
Sorry, but you are wrong on the hairline stuff. Whether a man loses his hair is a recessive trait on the maternal side of the family. If your mom's dad was bald, or somebody on her side of the family is bald, it is highly likely you will also be bald. There's not much you can do in the way of diet to prevent this from happening. Receding hairline - same thing. You might not lose it all, but you have a higher chance of losing some or most of it if this is the case. If it bothers you, look into hair plugs. Maybe a little crop rotation on your forehead will keep your ego intact.
I'm dating a 60-year-old guy who has more hair than either one of his sons, and they are both in their early 20s. Actually, he's probably got more hair on his head than both of them put together. They are still incredibly attractive young men.
Bear is not the "father" of this diet. If you want to slap that ridiculous label onto anybody, it would probably have to be Mackarness or Steffansson. Or maybe someone we don't even know about. Or the Inuit. Saying bear is the "father" of this diet is like saying Reagan is the "father" of our country. |
I'm living proof that this idea is wrong.
I can't explain bear's receding hairline, but I'm growing new terminal hairs in the receded area on my hairline on both sides. Slow and sporadic, but this diet plus these scalp exercises I do with the frontalis muscles and the occipitalis muscles in the back is maintaining what I have and regrowing some of it.
What Bear may be seeing is called "senescent thinning" which happens when you get to be his age. This is unrelated to body systems or male pattern baldness. This is the skin cells thinning out and being unable to support healthy hair follicles anymore. Everyone, even the people who don't have male pattern baldness get thinner hair in their elderly years.
The reason I think male pattern baldness, especially premature hair loss is caused by insulin resistance is because women who are insulin resistant which causes PCOS have the exact same pattern of hair loss as male pattern baldness. When they got a handle on the PCOS, and consequently the insulin their hair grew back.
I think MPB is just the male phenotype of PCOS.
There is no such thing as genetic destiny when it comes to disease or disorder, only pre-disposition.
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Galeron
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This is somewhat unrelated, but is along the lines of hair growth, and especially hair re-growth while on a low-/no-carb. diet.
Since starting low-/no-carb. about 8 months or so ago, I have very slowly been seeing re-growth of hair in certain places on my body: specifically my chest and my 'happy trail' area, where many men typically have hair growth. I have literally been witness to new hairs popping up that have never been there before, and I've watched them grow in and long from where there was simply nothing before.
I am not a very hairy person on my chest/stomach, so it is very easy to spot these new growths that are coming in. I've also noticed larger/thicker hairs here and there on to tops of my hands come in as well. It is very gradual and very slow, but def. increases in growth.
It has really surprised me, but I take it as evidence that low-/no-carb. does have the ability to restore hormonal balance within the human system. Either that or it is just an aging thing? (You know, old men with hair coming out of their ears n such).
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Scout Finch
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SaintAnger, I'm not completely convinced your argument is valid. I can buy the genetic predisposition stuff - like maybe some men won't lose their hair even if they are genetically predisposed. But what you are talking about with hair "regrowth" doesn't quite fit.
If you have a receding hairline, what's probably going on is that the hair follicles in those receded locations aren't quite completely atrophied, i.e., dead. That means that even though your hairline "receded," you still have very fine hair growing in those locations, probably that you can't even see with the naked eye. I mean, shit, we've got fine hair like that all over our bodies.
So it's more likely that those particular follicles aren't dead yet and that the hair - from manual stimulation, excessive protein ingestion, or whatever - is still in a regenerative phase.
But once those follicles are dead, you'll be out of luck. There won't be anything you can do to get hair back. Short of crop rotation.
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SaintAngerBH
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| Scout Finch wrote: | SaintAnger, I'm not completely convinced your argument is valid. I can buy the genetic predisposition stuff - like maybe some men won't lose their hair even if they are genetically predisposed. But what you are talking about with hair "regrowth" doesn't quite fit.
If you have a receding hairline, what's probably going on is that the hair follicles in those receded locations aren't quite completely atrophied, i.e., dead. That means that even though your hairline "receded," you still have very fine hair growing in those locations, probably that you can't even see with the naked eye. I mean, shit, we've got fine hair like that all over our bodies.
So it's more likely that those particular follicles aren't dead yet and that the hair - from manual stimulation, excessive protein ingestion, or whatever - is still in a regenerative phase.
But once those follicles are dead, you'll be out of luck. There won't be anything you can do to get hair back. Short of crop rotation. |
MPB is a complicated process. My idea is that insulin resistance throws your hormones out of whack, you have little to no SHBG which binds testosterone so it can't be converted to DHT. Those who have androgen receptors in the hair follicles receieve this excess of free T and convert it locally into DHT which shortens the anagen phase of the follicle. It will grow an intermediate hair for a while, and eventually start growing a small clear vellus hair.
When you are hyperinsulinemic this doubles on top of that because insulin is deleterious to the skin. It inflames your scalp. Leaving it sore, burning and scaling. Especially in the vertex/crown area. Men with MPB also have extremely high Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 in the scalp, especially in the vertex area.
When you stop eating carbohydrates this process reverses and your hormones come into balance again. Basically this would be like a natural propecia because you are dropping the amount of DHT that can be converted locally in the scalp.
On this WOE ideally, your body would have used up all of the free T so that by the time any were to reach the scalp it would be bound by SHBG. The scalp/hair is one of the last things in the body to receive anything in the blood.
Add to this that Rogaine is purely a vasodilator. The only thing that causes regrowth in rogaine is the fact that it is a vasodilator and dilates the blood vessels in the scalp.
The reason the scalp exercise is superior to both rogaine and massages is that exercise promotes angiogenesis. The strengthening of existing capillaries and the promotion of new capillaries. The capillary network in the scalp is what feeds the hair follicles their nutrients and protein.
The excess insulin and consequently excess DHT damage and kill parts of the capillary network. Notice how tight and thin the scalps of bald men are. The scalp is rock solid. In people without hair loss, their scalps are very loose and spongy.
I haven't fully recovered my hair yet, but every few days I'll look close up in the mirror and see that a new terminal hair at the hair line has popped out.
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Avalon
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SaintAnger,
Female hormones will stop it all together at your age You might grow some other things as well
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SaintAngerBH
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| Avalon wrote: | SaintAnger,
Female hormones will stop it all together at your age You might grow some other things as well |
Actually, overall...my hair still looks great. It is obviously less dense than it was 5 years ago, but it still looks great. I've always had great hair though.
Hopefully this process continues and these hairs continue to come back.
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Scout Finch
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Sounds like you've got it figured out. Good luck with your hair(s) growing back. How old are you, BTW?
As you can see, hair loss isn't a problem for me.
And neither are female hormones anymore, apparently. 
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BlackLabelSimian
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Bear's got more hair on his head than me and I am 36.
My grandfather (mom's side) had very thin hair and as far back as I can remember growing up, he was always bald on top.
Why, oh why couldn't he have had hair like my dad's?
Oh, well...That's why I wear a close cropped flattop. 
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adwred
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My brother looks so much better bald than he did with hair! He's so much more handsome now. Hair loss is a part of life and is really no big deal IMO. I find baldness does not interfere with sexiness, whatsoever. It's just a different look. My squeeze has ridiculously thick hair, but on the off chance we ever have a male child together, he'll be totally rockin' the Kojak by the time he hits 25, guaranteed, due to my genes. And I'm fine with that.
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | Oh, well...That's why I wear a close cropped flattop. |
This is a good look when guys have hair loss. As long as it's not too military-looking, but the shorter, the better.
Sim, I never even noticed that you had "hair loss" in your pics. It's such a non-issue when you're talking about sex appeal of the guy. But I'm so used to dating older guys, most of whom have lost most or all of their hair. Having a current partner with a full head of hair is more unusual than not.
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adwred
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I think just an even shave or close clip all around is most flattering on balding guys. I even like that look on guys with a full head of hair.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| adwred wrote: | | I think just an even shave or close clip all around is most flattering on balding guys. I even like that look on guys with a full head of hair. |
Like this?
Scout...It's thin/gone in the front and on the crown. I wear it high and tight like I used to in the service...Just that the "flat" part is cut closer than it used to be. A LOT.
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SaintAngerBH
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| Scout Finch wrote: | | Quote: | | Oh, well...That's why I wear a close cropped flattop. |
This is a good look when guys have hair loss. As long as it's not too military-looking, but the shorter, the better.
Sim, I never even noticed that you had "hair loss" in your pics. It's such a non-issue when you're talking about sex appeal of the guy. But I'm so used to dating older guys, most of whom have lost most or all of their hair. Having a current partner with a full head of hair is more unusual than not. |
This is the strange thing with hair loss. Guys mostly freak out about it because they're afraid women won't find them attractive anymore. Especially the younger ones, like me at 23...though I don't have a bald spot or anything....just somewhat thinner...
Most women don't seem to really care about it at all, which is the irony.
I think it also has to do with aging issues. Hair loss, in our society, signals aging. That freaks alot people out too.
But me, I've always had body dysmorphic issues. So it's tough to deal with, even if women don't care.
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BlackLabelSimian
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It's all about attitude...Or so some women tell me.
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Scout Finch
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SaintAnger, if you are only 23, you've got a lot of years of scalp massage ahead of you.  Maybe a few sessions of psychotherapy to help you deal with your BDD might better serve you in the long run. Just sayin'. Or get a hairpiece. I know a couple of women who wear wigs for the hell of it - it's just a different look for them. They like it, it just changes things up now and then.
No, most women aren't going to care. If they do care - do you really want to date them? That's like meeting a guy who says he only dates blonde women - WTF? I'm not about to bottle it for him, so I guess we won't be dating. 
Generally, not many women are going to tell you they won't date you because you are hair-challenged. They'll just find a way to extract themselves from having contact with you.
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Scout Finch
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | It's all about attitude...Or so some women tell me. |
I'll go with this. The men I'm attracted to are ... quietly confident. They don't flaunt their shit, and they don't care too much about what others think of them or what they do. They just have a strong sense of self. Maybe that comes with age.  I have met more of these guys the older I've become, so it might have more to do with age.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Scout Finch wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | It's all about attitude...Or so some women tell me. |
I'll go with this. The men I'm attracted to are ... quietly confident. They don't flaunt their shit, and they don't care too much about what others think of them or what they do. They just have a strong sense of self. Maybe that comes with age. I have met more of these guys the older I've become, so it might have more to do with age. |
Possibly. I know I am more comfortable in my skin now than I used to be. Not really cocky or even 100 secure, but a lot moreso than I used to be.
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SaintAngerBH
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| Scout Finch wrote: | SaintAnger, if you are only 23, you've got a lot of years of scalp massage ahead of you. Maybe a few sessions of psychotherapy to help you deal with your BDD might better serve you in the long run. Just sayin'. Or get a hairpiece. I know a couple of women who wear wigs for the hell of it - it's just a different look for them. They like it, it just changes things up now and then.
No, most women aren't going to care. If they do care - do you really want to date them? That's like meeting a guy who says he only dates blonde women - WTF? I'm not about to bottle it for him, so I guess we won't be dating.
Generally, not many women are going to tell you they won't date you because you are hair-challenged. They'll just find a way to extract themselves from having contact with you. |
Nah. My hair isn't near that thin yet. Besides, it's patterning exactly like my dad's, and I think my dad looks cool, even though it's pretty thin now.
I still have more than enough to comb it down the middle, and it hasn't thinned anymore than it was a year ago which is a great sign. It might even be slightly thicker, but I could be imagining that.
The hairline looks very strange though. It's receded, but you can see sporadic hairs in the areas where the hairline used to be 5 years ago. It's odd. When I first come out of the shower I comb it back and part it down the middle, and you can see these new hairs until it dries and my hair falls down over my forehead.
I'd rather go as thin as my dad than wear a hairpeice though. Those things look ridiculous.
The psychotherapy is a good idea, but at the moment probably can't work it in. BDD sucks. I still catch myself staring at my reflection often, and I have to force myself to stop sometimes.
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adwred
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What's ridiculous is a comb-over. Don't ever go there!!!!
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SaintAngerBH
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| adwred wrote: | | What's ridiculous is a comb-over. Don't ever go there!!!! |
This actually depends on the person. My dad parts what's left on the side and combs it over, but then again he's always done that even before it thinned.
It looks really cool, it's one of those cuts...sorta like the 50's or 60's rocker. It kinda curls up in the front and down the side. But then again he's not trying to comb it over to cover up the really thin back, he's just doing it because he's always done that.
Those combovers that are gelled down, or ear to ear, or a ridiculously failed attempt to cover up the bald spot look awful. It's sad really.
I'd rather shave it down to the wood than do that.
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Scout Finch
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| adwred wrote: | | What's ridiculous is a comb-over. Don't ever go there!!!! |
Yeah, anything but that.
I don't know about the hairpiece thing being so ridiculous. I've been to parties and gatherings where someone will tell me later that so-and-so "wears a hairpiece" - and you couldn't even tell that's what's up there.
Examining each single hair growing in sounds like it's part of your BDD. I don't know - work on being quietly self-confident. That's my advice. I've actually never heard of a man having BDD - is this a generational thing? Somehow, I always picture all the young-uns having great childhoods, but I guess I was wrong. 
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adwred
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No, there are many men with BDD. In the past, most of them have been concentrated in the dance and sports communities, but it's a growing trend, for sure. My partner has shades of it, I think.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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I had a teacher with a hairpiece that he must have had for a little too long. His real hair was much greyer, and it was often crooked. I had so many secret (but not mean) giggles to myself over it. I never wanted to laugh with other girls about it because it would have felt mean, and because i felt bad for him.
I agree with the other ladies. No problem with being bald. Except that we can't grab a handful of hair while dtd.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Quote: | | Except that we can't grab a handful of hair while dtd. |
And it is statements like that that make a lot of men stress out and lament the loss of their hair.
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Scout Finch
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Well, you can't grab on anyway if it's a rug.
This must be the "boob" issue for guys. Hair loss and cock size. No man ever rejected me because I'm a 34B. TMI, but come on. Let's get real. Hair loss in men is so normal and universal.
I was going to say too that SaintAnger needs to be looking at his maternal grandfather's hair pattern, not his own father's. Doesn't matter how a guy's father's hair looks - the guy will end up with hair looking more like the maternal grandfather's.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Scout Finch wrote: | Well, you can't grab on anyway if it's a rug.
This must be the "boob" issue for guys. Hair loss and cock size. No man ever rejected me because I'm a 34B. TMI, but come on. Let's get real. Hair loss in men is so normal and universal. |
Pretty much, yeah. I have spent a decent amount of time on quite a few hair loss sites/forums in the past and I kid you not...Some of these guys are devastated. I'm not kidding when I say a few were probably damn near suicidal. One dude I recall in particular was like that...I would read his posts and I felt awful for the dude. I always thought to myself "This guy is gonna off himself someday"
Obviously, he had bigger issues than hair loss, but he fixated on that like you would not believe. And he was far from the only one.
On the upside, I might not have all my hair, but I hear my other equipment is pretty decent. LMMFAO
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BlackLabelSimian
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And as an aside, I stopped going to those hair loss forums for that very reason...I started getting majorly depressed about my own thinning and reading there would just drag me further down and make me think "I knew it...I am unattractive"
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Avalon
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Scout
| Quote: | | Hair loss in men is so normal and universal. |
This is a tough one. Just like weight in real life is not reflected properly in the media, how many famous celebs are there that work bald. A few yes. But 'We' grew up watching thin, well haired people on tv. We idolized them sometimes. We develope images of ourselves while young. Then, the weight comes on, the hair goes and our self images are destroyed.
This may seem funny but it's not and yes I'm going to reference 'Grizzly Man'. Tim treadwell combed his hair forward the best he could to hide his receeding hair line. He often comments on his hair with a smile. But I promise you this wasn't a light issue for him. He grew up with the 'hero' mentality. And Heros aren't bald in his world. It can be devastating.
Maybe word has to get out that it's not a big issue as you say.
Best wishes,
Avalon 
p.s. the emoticon is bald!
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adwred
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: |
On the upside, I might not have all my hair, but I hear my other equipment is pretty decent. LMMFAO |
I believe the words Scout used were quiet self-confidence.
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Scout Finch
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God, there's a forum for everything. I thought they were over-the-top on the "over 40" women's forum. Some of these babes are absolutely desperate to get married because they think nobody will ever look at them again once they turn 40. Truly sad.
But a hair loss forum. Jeez, I can imagine how much $$ these guys spend on phony products with phony "testimonials." Yikes.
Generally, these kinds of issues are "placeholders" for what's really going on. In other words, it's easier to focus on hair loss, or age, or the way your body looks than to deal with the underlying psychopathy - because that psychopathy usually reflects overall self-hatred and a weak ego. And that would involve an enormous amount of self-reflection and psychological work in order to peel back those layers. For some it could take years of therapy. Self-loathing is at the bottom of it. Because it ain't about the hair. Or your age. Or your body. Those are just the scapegoats.
I'm glad you exited that site. Stay away from negative shit like that. It'll only bring you down. But I would never have believed forums like that existed if I didn't hear about it. Unbelievable.
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Scout Finch
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| Avalon wrote: | Scout
| Quote: | | Hair loss in men is so normal and universal. |
This is a tough one. Just like weight in real life is not reflected properly in the media, how many famous celebs are there that work bald. A few yes. But 'We' grew up watching thin, well haired people on tv. We idolized them sometimes. We develope images of ourselves while young. Then, the weight comes on, the hair goes and our self images are destroyed.
This may seem funny but it's not and yes I'm going to reference 'Grizzly Man'. Tim treadwell combed his hair forward the best he could to hide his receeding hair line. He often comments on his hair with a smile. But I promise you this wasn't a light issue for him. He grew up with the 'hero' mentality. And Heros aren't bald in his world. It can be devastating.
Maybe word has to get out that it's not a big issue as you say.
Best wishes,
Avalon
p.s. the emoticon is bald! |
Ovalon, I agree with you that it can be devastating and quite serious. And I don't know how to solve the problem of the intense pressure we get from media images of thin gorgeous young! women and hirsute men. (But I just thought of Bruce Willis there.) Again, I think people with weak ego boundaries and low self-esteem are more prone to accepting media-invented images as the ideal or the "norm" and trying to live up to it - with the 5 hours of working out every day, the botox, the hair plugs, or whatever. I mean, we all buy it to some extent. I get my hair colored, otherwise I would be salt-and-pepper (more pepper still, but the gray would be there) just because I don't feel "ready" to have gray hair. I don't know if that has to do with me still being single or not - I have married girlfriends who color their hair. It's a vanity thing, I guess.
And when eggy's saying that BDD is more prevalent in men these days - well, we have huge media influences telling us we have to look a certain way, be a certain size, have a certain amount of hair on our heads. It's difficult to overcome the pressure.
No answers here. But it's an interesting topic!
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adwred
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| Scout Finch wrote: |
No answers here. But it's an interesting topic! |
Absolutely!
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copychick
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that's one big reason why i am hesitant to start dating again. i don't want to have to measure up. i don't want to have to 'compete' by dolling up.
i am never happier than when i am alone at the cabin and don't have to give a shit about make up and hair and fashion and how my body is looking. it's so comfortable. but even then, i can be walking down a trail and a group of young mountain biker boys will go by and look right through me like i don't exist. i shrug it off, but man, that kind of 'dismissal' is pretty powerful energy. it makes me sad that we do this to each other, but we all do it to some extent.
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barb0324
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Hey Copy, it's so good to see you! I think you're beautiful, btw. and I would never look through you, nor anyone actually, for that matter. People who don't look at other people aren't worth the time it takes to think about them. I wish we all lived closer, so we could get together and give one another encouragement and hope, don't mean to sound sappy, but it's a shame that so many folks are so disengaged from their fellow man.
Glad you're enjoying the cabin though, stay in touch, okay? 
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BlackLabelSimian
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| adwred wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: |
On the upside, I might not have all my hair, but I hear my other equipment is pretty decent. LMMFAO |
I believe the words Scout used were quiet self-confidence. |
*Shrugs*
Re: The hair loss forums...
A lot of the guys don't spend as much as you'd think on it. They have all been around the block enough to smell snake oil when it's being sold, I think.
They are always looking into treatment options, of course, but most of them stick with stuff like Propecia, Rogaine, copper peptides, Nizoral and MSM because it may have some benefit in the hair loss department, but is useful in other areas as well.
They discuss surgery, hair pieces and etc as well too, of course.
But it's really upsetting on some level to see how devastated some men really are over it.
I had my spells too, but nowhere near as bad as some of these poor fellas.
On the topic of "older" women and/or having to "look" a certain way or "compete"...
My lady always says one of my best qualities is that I think she looks sexy no matter how she's dressed, makeup or not, etc.
Personally, I think if a woman is sexy, it shows through whether she is all dolled up or hanging out in sweats and a tee. Again...A lot of it is attitude.
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SaintAngerBH
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| Scout Finch wrote: | Well, you can't grab on anyway if it's a rug.
This must be the "boob" issue for guys. Hair loss and cock size. No man ever rejected me because I'm a 34B. TMI, but come on. Let's get real. Hair loss in men is so normal and universal.
I was going to say too that SaintAnger needs to be looking at his maternal grandfather's hair pattern, not his own father's. Doesn't matter how a guy's father's hair looks - the guy will end up with hair looking more like the maternal grandfather's. |
I've actually read that the idea that it's the mother's grandfather is wrong. It's multi-generational and on both sides.
I have my dads hair. It's exactly like his was whe he was younger. And my hairline has gone up exactly the way his looks, and the vertex is/was (not sure what to say there yet) thinning exactly like his started.
Though he started around 30, and I started at 18.
Who knows. I'll keep eating no-carb and doing my scalp exercises. Hopefully those terminals will keep popping up.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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This is a real question, sorry if it seems stupid, but is boob size really still an issue once a woman gets older, say over 25? Maybe it's because of my location, but I thought big boobs were just one of those "some men are obsessed with them" kind of things, rather than a true ongoing pressure. To be thin, perky, dressed a certain way, and all kind of other things YES but breasts? BIG breasts? Is that a north american thing? I know Andy's friend here loves big boobs but a lot of the pics I've seen in sex shops feature natural breasts of all sizes (rather than large being the most common) so I was just wondering. Maybe I'm just sheltered! My husband just likes them. Big, small, young old dark light yay breasts!
As long as we're talking about body issues, penis size, my God. I love my male friends, and most of them are not like this.. but the next man that starts going off about his size to me ... I knew a size queen once, but come on. If you think women are pieces of meat who want to be pounded into a pulp by the biggest hammer they can find then it's no wonder your girlfriends lose interest in sex early on. What's in it for them? Sorry, I know too many guys like this.
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BlackLabelSimian
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I don't think breast size is as big an issue as some make it out to be. I think it's more about overall proportion than anything else.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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Hm. Maybe it's just that the proponents are particularly vocal?
And guys.. hair can be pretty, but it's so much more common to gleek at a nice ass, or legs, shoulders.. oh wait! PERSONALITY Bodyparts become objectified after a personality makes the man worthy of objectifying. He's an asshole? Who cares about what he looks like. I like him, oh he has beautiful <bodyparthere>
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BlackLabelSimian
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Sure, some men like asses more, some prefer breasts, but I think a lot more just plain appreciate an attractive, well-proportioned lady.
Some of the sexiest ladies I've known were actually quite petite. They might not have had an "outstanding" bodypart per se, but they had a great frame and very nice look about them.
I dunno...Maybe it is partly an age thing and you just appreciate a lot more about a lady when you hit your late 20's/30's than just a certain bodypart.
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bubbaM
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I think it's important to mention that Bear had cancer. I'm not saying that this diet causes cancer and/or doesn't reverse cancer, but Bear obviously didn't have all his bases covered with his way of eating/thinking(which is to say not continuing to research/keeping an open mind to learning from others). Hair loss and skin texture may not be driving forces to continue to seek what's best for your body, but the thought of the possibility of coming down with cancer surely is.
bubba
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Avalon
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Our fates may have been sealed long before we arrived here.
Good morning!
My parents were heavy smokers. Heavy in the car with the windows up and the kids in the back seat smokers. Most if not all of my childhood was living with smoke.
Ta dah! (takes a bow)
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Viking Dan
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To quote the late great Rodney Dangerfield: "My Doctor told me if I watch what I eat, exercise and quit smoking then someday I will get very sick and die."
We all have to die of something.
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barb0324
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Ava, I think most of us baby boomers grew up with second hand smoke. Ultimately what Dan said is true, isn't it! My grandfather on my father's side (Irish/German/Cherokee) died at 94 with a glass of whisky in one hand and a cigar in the other (or so I've been told). My husband, a health nut and very athletic, died of a fatal heart attack at age 36, he had an arrythmia... a lot of it is determined by genes and fate.
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adwred
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| bubbaM wrote: | I think it's important to mention that Bear had cancer. I'm not saying that this diet causes cancer and/or doesn't reverse cancer, but Bear obviously didn't have all his bases covered with his way of eating/thinking(which is to say not continuing to research/keeping an open mind to learning from others). Hair loss and skin texture may not be driving forces to continue to seek what's best for your body, but the thought of the possibility of coming down with cancer surely is.
bubba |
Bubba, we just had a discussion about Bear's cancer in the Calcium and Carnivores thread. Have a look.
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adwred
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| ReddyMcMeaty wrote: | | I knew a size queen once, but come on. If you think women are pieces of meat who want to be pounded into a pulp by the biggest hammer they can find then it's no wonder your girlfriends lose interest in sex early on. What's in it for them? Sorry, I know too many guys like this. |
Meg, OMG I agree entirely. I've never even known one size queen. Ever. In fact, I've known too many women who went on about how their man's penis was way too big for their liking (one of them compared it to a pop can ) or that their man had absolutely no finesse when it came to sex - just pounding away thinking that speed and force are the only things that matter and priding themselves on that stuff entirely. I had a boyfriend once who was too well-endowed. I could tell, although he didn't talk about it constantly, he was so fucking proud of himself in that respect... Meanwhile, I had to psych myself up for sex and have slight anxiety every time we did it. I was happy when that relationship ended, for many reasons and his cock size was one of them.
Personally, I'm attracted to men for the qualities that they can control and nuture as they age, like how kind, considerate, funny, dependable, respectful, interesting, forward-thinking, positive, motivated, etc. they are - not the things they were born with and have no control over, like cock size or hair. Those things are just added bonuses once you discover you like someone, like Meg said, but basically are really superficial.
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bubbaM
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okay, thanks
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Scout Finch
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The too-large cock is always a problem. I absolutely could not sustain a relationship with a man whose cock caused me pain every time we had intercourse. That apprehension at having sex would be there every time we went to bed. That's not the way I want to feel when I'm with somebody. The largest guy I ever dated was truly built all over in that respect - he was a real "linebacker" kind of guy - like 6'4" and 230 or whatever and solid as a rock. But it was an exercise in futility in bed - it was just too painful! I got anxious just seeing that wall of flesh coming at me.
Unfortunately, the oversized cock is not the most universal problem out there - it's inexperienced men. Sometimes it just surprises me how bad in bed a lot of guys are. A lot of them really don't understand women's anatomy, and I'm talking some men in their 50s that I've dated in the past. It's pretty obvious once you are in bed with these guys that none of their past partners communicated with them about sex.
This is going to sound awful, but at my age, I really don't want to have to deal with a man who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Because then it becomes more an exercise in "teaching" rather than simply "assisting." When they know what they're doing, all they need is fine-tuning to learn how your particular body responds. When they are in a complete flail, it means you have to go back to square one with them and start from scratch.
It's really rare to get a guy who says, "Let me know how this feels for you," or whatever. Here's what usually happens: They use the technique that "worked" on their last partner - they dive in without even tuning in to how you are responding and "assume" it's all going to work and get you off, no matter what they are doing.
So when you meet a man whose real goal is to please you, to make you hit the ceiling, a guy who truly can check his sexual ego at the door because he realizes he has to engage all of his senses in pleasing you and getting in tune with your body, it's incredible.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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Scout, I'm absolutely amazed at how common this "problem" is too(for women that I talk to), especially considering how much men (that I talk to) WANT frequent sex. You'd think that more effort would be put into securing it, not just getting it but making sure that their partner wants it as much as they do, thus the getting it part being secure. Of course natural sex drives differ and unfortunately they can't do anything about that except encourage carnivorism among women...
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copychick
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 okay, i'm never dating again! 
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Avalon
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I'm off to Alaska to protect the Bears. 
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adwred
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LOL @ 'in a complete flail'. Never were better words used to describe it.
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Galeron
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OMG... lol @ 'The too-large cock is always a problem' and 'size queen'... and 'wall of flesh.' Oh, I've known a size queen before, just for the record.
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SaintAngerBH
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| Scout Finch wrote: | The too-large cock is always a problem. I absolutely could not sustain a relationship with a man whose cock caused me pain every time we had intercourse. That apprehension at having sex would be there every time we went to bed. That's not the way I want to feel when I'm with somebody. The largest guy I ever dated was truly built all over in that respect - he was a real "linebacker" kind of guy - like 6'4" and 230 or whatever and solid as a rock. But it was an exercise in futility in bed - it was just too painful! I got anxious just seeing that wall of flesh coming at me.
Unfortunately, the oversized cock is not the most universal problem out there - it's inexperienced men. Sometimes it just surprises me how bad in bed a lot of guys are. A lot of them really don't understand women's anatomy, and I'm talking some men in their 50s that I've dated in the past. It's pretty obvious once you are in bed with these guys that none of their past partners communicated with them about sex.
This is going to sound awful, but at my age, I really don't want to have to deal with a man who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Because then it becomes more an exercise in "teaching" rather than simply "assisting." When they know what they're doing, all they need is fine-tuning to learn how your particular body responds. When they are in a complete flail, it means you have to go back to square one with them and start from scratch.
It's really rare to get a guy who says, "Let me know how this feels for you," or whatever. Here's what usually happens: They use the technique that "worked" on their last partner - they dive in without even tuning in to how you are responding and "assume" it's all going to work and get you off, no matter what they are doing.
So when you meet a man whose real goal is to please you, to make you hit the ceiling, a guy who truly can check his sexual ego at the door because he realizes he has to engage all of his senses in pleasing you and getting in tune with your body, it's incredible. |
That's a two way street. I've actually had to remind several women to not get their teeth caught down there. It effing hurts like HELL.
Also, after we've gotten off, don't start licking the head again...that hurts really bad too.
None of them understood that until I pointed it out. Annoying as hell.
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Galeron
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| Quote: | | Also, after we've gotten off, don't start licking the head again...that hurts really bad too. |
I wouldn't say 'hurts,' but I agree, I think it is really important to keep subsequent contact to a minimum, b/c that area is extremely sensitive afterwards.
This is subject matter related, right? I mean, we're still talking about 'meat.'
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Viking Dan
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What was the topic again?
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Viking Dan wrote: | | What was the topic again? |
Beaver?
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Viking Dan
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: | | Viking Dan wrote: | | What was the topic again? |
Beaver? |
"Nice beaver!"
"Thanks. I just had it stuffed."
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BlackLabelSimian
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There's a blast from the past.
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adwred
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| SaintAngerBH wrote: |
That's a two way street. I've actually had to remind several women to not get their teeth caught down there. It effing hurts like HELL.
Also, after we've gotten off, don't start licking the head again...that hurts really bad too.
None of them understood that until I pointed it out. Annoying as hell. |
Don't worry, SaintAngerBH. That shouldn't really happen too often as you get a bit older. Unless you have a particular yen for young and inexperienced women as you age. But generally the women who make the mistake of dragging their teeth learn pretty quickly not to. Unless they have a natural talent and they're with a guy who likes a bit of a skilled nibble, that is.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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| SaintAngerBH wrote: |
That's a two way street. I've actually had to remind several women to not get their teeth caught down there. It effing hurts like HELL. |
Note to self. Dragging teeth on inexperienced penis may result in less requests for teeth to actually be on penis. Good plan.
Red did we really not know this, or is more appreciation simply shown to the ones we want to please bacK?
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adwred
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I've never actually heard of any guy complaining about any aspect of receiving oral sex. I was just being understanding.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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Defensiveness is telling though, isn't it?
For the younger ones who seem to be upset over this kind of thing, you have time to learn, and unless you are in love with your own cock over the mutual enjoyment of sex, you shouldn't have women laughing and complaining about your lack of finesse. It's a particular mindset that was originally complained about.
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Scout Finch
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| adwred wrote: | | I've never actually heard of any guy complaining about any aspect of receiving oral sex. I was just being understanding. |
Yeah, about the "worst" I've ever heard in the head department is something like "Fuck, you give great head!"
I remember years ago being self-conscious about the teeth thing, and I said, "let me know if my teeth bother you," and the guy's response was, "Don't worry, I'll take my chances!"
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Scout Finch
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| Quote: | | and unless you are in love with your own cock |
This is what I mean by checking your sexual ego at the door. Every woman is different, and for the guy to actually tune in to his partner's desires takes patience and skill. It's a very giving process. I don't think it's any secret that women are simply built differently and many require more time and focus to be pleasured. Men's sexuality - the sexual response cycle - is so much more straightforward. And I think a lot of men are just not there. Unfortunately, a lot of sex happening between folks is just two people having two separate experiences in bed without that connection. There's nothing wrong with that, but I am in a place where I expect my partners to be more evolved than that in bed.
There doesn't seem to be a profile for it, either. I used to think some of the worst offenders were the guys coming out of long marriages (for obvious reasons). But I've dated men who were single for a long while who still couldn't open up completely in bed. Bottom line, IMO, is that they have simply gone through their sexual lives with a lack of communication between them and any past partners they had. And this behavior in the bedroom flows out into other parts of the relationship - a guy who can give completely to his partner in the bedroom is usually more likely to be able to open up with communication skills in other parts of the relationship.
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BlackLabelSimian
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| Quote: | | communication skills in other parts of the relationship. |
Please...
I'm trying to watch the game here, huh??
| Quote: | | and unless you are in love with your own cock |
I might as well be...No one else wants to be bothered with me. LMMFAO!
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ReddyMcMeaty
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| BlackLabelSimian wrote: |
| Quote: | | and unless you are in love with your own cock |
I might as well be...No one else wants to be bothered with me. LMMFAO! |
Aww Simian!  Do I have to retrieve my tiny violin again? 
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BlackLabelSimian
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| ReddyMcMeaty wrote: | | BlackLabelSimian wrote: |
| Quote: | | and unless you are in love with your own cock |
I might as well be...No one else wants to be bothered with me. LMMFAO! |
Aww Simian! Do I have to retrieve my tiny violin again? |
Please? 
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Avalon
|
SABH wrote;
| Quote: | That's a two way street. I've actually had to remind several women to not get their teeth caught down there. It effing hurts like HELL.
Also, after we've gotten off, don't start licking the head again...that hurts really bad too.
None of them understood that until I pointed it out. Annoying as hell. |
It must be annoying if you have to point to it. Maybe a Magnifying glass might help
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barb0324
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Avalon
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I'm sorry
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Viking Dan
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The worst thing is when you're having sex with a woman and her pimp clubs you over the head and they run off with your wallet.
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adwred
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Xeta, you just made my morning.
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ReddyMcMeaty
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| adwred wrote: | | Xeta, you just made my morning. |
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