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Trem

Anthony Colpo on stored body fat even with Zero-carb

I know there are some folks in here that say they have gained weight on zero-carb so I thought this would be interesting.


http://dietking2.blogspot.com/200...tking-interviewanthony-colpo.html

DietKing: 7) Many low-carb authors tell you your body can’t store dietary fat as adipose fat if carbohydrates are absent from the diet? Are we all slightly guilty of believing in magic?

AC: You can certainly put on fat in the absence of carbohydrate, and to suggest otherwise is highly misleading. Yes, insulin is a storage hormone that promotes the formation of fat in adipose cells. Yes, it triggers the conversion of glucose to triglycerides. But what these authors and their faithful followers seem to be forgetting is that insulin-mediated conversion of glucose to fat is in no way the only source of body fat production. This may come as an earth-shattering revelation to some, but dietary fat can easily be stored as body fat as well. The regulation of fat production and oxidation is a wee bit more complex than the simplistic scenario put forward by many low-carb authors – it doesn’t simply begin and end with insulin, as they would have you believe.

It has been shown conclusively in controlled clinical studies that zero- or near-zero carbohydrate diets produce the same effects on weight and body fat status when calories are consumed at or below maintenance. The bottom line is caloric intake. Bumping up your protein intake can cause a little extra fat loss and a little more muscle preservation whilst leaving the rate of overall weight change unaffected, but this is an effect that occurs on both low- and high-carbohydrate diets.

Research comparing the effects of low- versus high-carbohydrate diets during deliberate overfeeding is a little harder to come by. A Danish study comparing a 78% carb diet with a 31% carb diet of similar caloric excess found no difference in weight or fat gain over a 21-day period. But the low-carb diet in that study obviously wasn’t a ketogenic diet. As I’ve not seen any overfeeding studies comparing keto diets and non-keto diets, I’m not prepared to make any blanket statements about the comparative rates of weight gain on the two diets. All I will say to people is don’t believe that you can’t gain fat on a hypercaloric keto diet. You certainly can. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and try it.
jl53563

I tried it for a month and did not gain.  I promise you if I had eaten 4000 calories per day of mostly carbs for a month, I would have gained plenty.  I'm not prepared to prove it, though.   Laugh
Viking Dan

jl53563 wrote:
I tried it for a month and did not gain.  I promise you if I had eaten 4000 calories per day of mostly carbs for a month, I would have gained plenty.  I'm not prepared to prove it, though.   Laugh


Obviously, you have to try 6000/day next, Jeff.
jl53563

Viking Dan wrote:
jl53563 wrote:
I tried it for a month and did not gain.  I promise you if I had eaten 4000 calories per day of mostly carbs for a month, I would have gained plenty.  I'm not prepared to prove it, though.   Laugh


Obviously, you have to try 6000/day next, Jeff.
Obviously.  Wink
Viking Dan

Jeff's new experiment menu:

Breakfast: 1 lb. 80% lean beef

Snack: 1 stick butter

Lunch: 1 lb. cheddar

Snack: 1 stick butter

Dinner: 1/2 cup coconut oil + 1 cup heavy cream

GO TO IT, MAN! ;)
Avalon

WOW! I would really like to hear blood tests after a month eating this way. Very interesting!
jl53563

Avalon wrote:
WOW! I would really like to hear blood tests after a month eating this way. Very interesting!

He's kidding!  Laugh   My hunch, however, would be for very high HDL, very low triglycerides, and large fluffy LDL, which are all good things.   Laugh

My last blood test, which was about 14 months into my low-carb journey, showed HDL of 77 and triglycerides of 37.  I'd guess my HDL would be even higher now, and tri's would be about the same or a bit lower.
Avalon

I knew that  Roll Eyes  Shock
jl53563

Avalon wrote:
I knew that  Roll Eyes  Shock

Or maybe Dan wasn't kidding?  Wow
adwred

I went through a period over overeating on ZC (3000+ calories/day) and although I didn't gain any weight DURING, as soon as my little challenge was over, I quickly gained 10 lbs over the course of about 6 weeks, even though I was eating the same thing I did before the challenge. Weird! Delayed reaction?
jl53563

adwred wrote:
I went through a period over overeating on ZC (3000+ calories/day) and although I didn't gain any weight DURING, as soon as my little challenge was over, I quickly gained 10 lbs over the course of about 6 weeks, even though I was eating the same thing I did before the challenge. Weird! Delayed reaction?

That is weird, Red.  

Do you any theories as to why this happened?
Avalon

Probably the alien abduction time vortex thingy, right?
adwred

I have no theories! Honestly, the human body is very complex, but it just proves to me that you can't assume anything especially where food- and calorie-metabolism comes into play. Those calories didn't just wither up and die... they eventually reared their ugly little heads. It could be that my experiment had an overarching affect on my metabolism or hormones. Or maybe I swapped muscle for fat during that phase, which didn't show up on the scale, but then had an affect when I went to try to resume my life normally, later on, since I had less LM to fall back on? Or the alien time vortex thingy. Yup Again - no real idea.
adwred

I do think the laws of attraction work in your favour, Jeff. I think you've found a diet that seems to work for you, but also, I think you're so confident in your diet that the power of your mind makes up for anything your diet lacks. You brain seems to do course-correction for you, even when you're eating things that would otherwise cause people to gain weight like your 4000 calorie thing. No joke. Believing something is right and expecting it to work for you is 90% of the thing, right there. What bear said made sense to you, you believed it, you applied it, it worked. Part of it is that your body did well on it and part of it is that your mind did well on it.

I wish we could all have that kind of conviction about our diets. We'd all be much healthier.
jl53563

adwred wrote:
I do think the laws of attraction work in your favour, Jeff. I think you've found a diet that seems to work for you, but also, I think you're so confident in your diet that the power of your mind makes up for anything your diet lacks. You brain seems to do course-correction for you, even when you're eating things that would otherwise cause people to gain weight like your 4000 calorie thing. No joke. Believing something is right and expecting it to work for you is 90% of the thing, right there. What bear said made sense to you, you believed it, you applied it, it worked. Part of it is that your body did well on it and part of it is that your mind did well on it.

I wish we could all have that kind of conviction about our diets. We'd all be much healthier.

Wow, interesting thoughts about the mind.  You are very correct about Bear.  What he said did make sense to me.  I applied it, it worked, and I believe it to be a very healthy and proper diet.  My mind does very well on this diet!
Avalon

Quote:
My mind does very well on this diet!


Careful, the Universe has a way of throwing you off course, just when you think you know what's what. Never say you're happy, something is working, you love someone and for that matter anything positive. It's safe to think, but if you verbalize this the Universe will slap you down before you can spank the Monkey!

Yup
jl53563

Avalon wrote:
Quote:
My mind does very well on this diet!


Careful, the Universe has a way of throwing you off course, just when you think you know what's what. Never say you're happy, something is working, you love someone and for that matter anything positive. It's safe to think, but if you verbalize this the Universe will slap you down before you can spank the Monkey!

Yup

Yes, I've heard that!
Trem

I've always had a problem with overeating but was always able to combat it with short intense bouts of exercise (mainly circuit training, kickboxing, and grappling). I noticed when I was on zero carb though, that I started gaining a lot of fat and just lost explosiveness in anything I did physically. My weight went from 195 to 215 and bodyfat from 10% to 18%, and I'm 5'10". I then just lost motivation to exercise at all. I stayed on zero carb religiously for 4 months waiting to keto-adapt before realizing that I definitely need some carbs. I'm now 192 at 8% bodyfat.  Who knows, maybe a little bit of insulin is good. It is an anabolic hormone and bodybuilders have been using it for muscle gains for a long time now. My personal thoughts are that an excess of it is what causes problems, not moderate amounts.
jl53563

Quote:
My personal thoughts are that an excess of it is what causes problems, not moderate amounts.


I think it depends on how insulin resistant a person is.  A person with no insulin resistance can probably handle a pretty fair amount of carbs, and the accompanying insulin.  A person who is extremely resistant may have trouble with even a small amount of carbs.  The pancreas will just keep releasing more and more insulin until there is enough to do the job.  Given enough time on a high carb diet, almost everybody will become insulin resistant to some degree.
adwred

There's also a difference between consuming carbs - enough to properly metabolize fat and derive a good amount of energy to move - and eating a high carb diet, like the standard american one. I'm realizing that what most people eat is far too many carbs, but that's not to say that carbs are bad, per se. I seem to do best at around 80-120 g/day. Anything more and I risk gaining fat, anything less and I feel like crap and have no energy. In fact, I can't seem to access the energy of my food without carbs, if that makes any sense.
Trem

adwred wrote:
There's also a difference between consuming carbs - enough to properly metabolize fat and derive a good amount of energy to move - and eating a high carb diet, like the standard american one. I'm realizing that what most people eat is far too many carbs, but that's not to say that carbs are bad, per se. I seem to do best at around 80-120 g/day. Anything more and I risk gaining fat, anything less and I feel like crap and have no energy. In fact, I can't seem to access the energy of my food without carbs, if that makes any sense.


Indeed. And I think a big problem with the high carb standard American diet is that there is not enough quality animal fats to go along with it. I much prefer fat instead of carbs as an energy source, but IMO carbs still do have an important place.
Avalon

Mashed Potatoes with Raw Yolks!!! Best of both worlds!  Yup
woof_woof

adwred wrote:
There's also a difference between consuming carbs - enough to properly metabolize fat and derive a good amount of energy to move - and eating a high carb diet, like the standard american one. I'm realizing that what most people eat is far too many carbs, but that's not to say that carbs are bad, per se. I seem to do best at around 80-120 g/day. Anything more and I risk gaining fat, anything less and I feel like crap and have no energy. In fact, I can't seem to access the energy of my food without carbs, if that makes any sense.


If you had no energy withour carbs it means you kept overeating so your insulin was too high all the time.
Do it the right way and you will be surprised that you are doing fine without any carbs.
But 80-120 gr of carbs a day won't kill you anyway.
adwred

I agree that my insulin was, at times, high even on ZC, but not due to overeating and I wouldn't say it was the reason for my lack of energy. I've gone through periods where I practiced quite severe calorie restriction on ZC and also intermittent fasting and I definitely didn't find my energy suddenly increased.
jl53563

Quote:
In fact, I can't seem to access the energy of my food without carbs, if that makes any sense.


I understand what you are saying, Red. But that certainly has not been my experience, or the experience of many others.  While many low-carbers do report having better energy eating some carbs, very few seem to require 80-120.  I still think some sort of hormonal imbalance may be the culprit.
adwred

I think needing a LC diet to begin with in order to not be fat, indicates a hormonal imbalance. Not saying my hormones work great, because they don't. I've been overweight since I was a child and continue to be (on a small scale). But yeah. Show me someone around here without some sort of hormonal 'inbalance' and I'll give you a nice big shiny medal.

Also, I feel pretty strongly now that I have some distance from VLC that it's not that all those women (and some men) who I've now come across who don't lose weight or feel right on VLC are just hormonally fucked up or inbalanced or 'not doing it the right way'. They're just different than, say, you or woof woof, for example. I don't want anyone to keep struggling at something that clearly isn't working just because it appears to work for others. It can make you feel like a failure or like you're doing something wrong when you aren't. Nor do I feel I need to be taking hormones or drugs to try to fix me. I've had a physical rather recently and all my hormones were fine, including my thyroid. I'm just saying - don't suffer needlessly! Try other things.
Avalon

Red Wrote:
Quote:
Also, I feel pretty strongly now that I have some distance from VLC that it's not that all those women (and some men) who I've now come across who don't lose weight or feel right on VLC are just hormonally fucked up or inbalanced or 'not doing it the right way'. They're just different than, say, you or woof woof, for example.

I totally agree. We are all very different inside and out. It's tricky figuring out what works and what doesn't.
Trem

woof_woof wrote:


If you had no energy withour carbs it means you kept overeating so your insulin was too high all the time.
Do it the right way and you will be surprised that you are doing fine without any carbs.
But 80-120 gr of carbs a day won't kill you anyway.


Then what would you recomend for someone who exercises rigorously and needs a high amount of calories to perform at a high level? Eat less and not have enough energy to perform? Been there, done that, it didn't work. The zero-carb god Bear has said that protein and fat will not turn to insulin in the absense of carbohydrates, except when someone is seriously emaciated. Bear also doesn't exercise more than 2 times per week and only for an hour or so. Throughout most of the VLC message boards it's clear that most of the posters are arm-chair warriors except for a select few, whose performance could not be considered 'elite' by any means. Eating less certainly does not help, especially for explosive, high-pace exercise which uses fast twitch muscle fibers where carbs are the prefered energy source.

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