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Moronic_Pathways · TROLL Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 268

is there any more information on the Primal Diet? online on in books?
i have the book We want to Live but i want as much info,testimonies and feedback as i can on this diet.I want to begin this diet myself,but i want to make sure i am not harming myself Cry

thanks all!

ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p80.htm

I have the book the recipe for living without disease.. if you have any questions.
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Lightfoot · Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the link Meg. There is some really interesting info here. Is the book good?
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ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

I thought it was good, it wouldn't be good for people who need studies to prove what he's saying though!! He says a lot of stuff an dyou have to believe it based on what you know, or throw it out the window as bullshit. I think he has a lot of great principles, but don't consider his diet the be all end all way of being....unless I felt like eating that way of course!
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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

Lightfoot · Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject:

What does he say about treating depression? I'm still studying the whole serotonin production info and I'm not liking what I see. It all promotes eating carbs, complex carbs, but carbs none the less. Sad

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ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

let me check later when the baby is in bed
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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

Lightfoot · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject:

Whenever you get time, I'd appreciate it.
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ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

High meat, as often as every other day is recommended for depression. Aajonus says that you can just swallow the chunks of meat, but chewing it "makes it more effective to lift the spirits."

"If suffering depression or chronic constipation, I suggest eating high meat twice a week. Do NOT eat high meat while on a weight loss cycle."

I wonder if he means HIS weight loss cycle, not any kind of weight loss.

Any questions re: high meat? I've eaten it.
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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

TidalPool · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject:

Bobi-p · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:

Doesn't it mean on the verge of rotten?
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ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

aged....rotten........ Laugh

Use whatever word you'd like.

recipe for high meat, from Aajonus's book:

"Place 1 volume pint of raw meat, chopped into bite sized pieces, into a glass quart jar: equal air and meat space. Place Ball jar lid on jar tightly and place in refrigerator. I suggest three jars be prepared; one with raw meat, one with natural raw fowl and one with ocean wild caught raw fish. Every 3-4 days take the jar outdoors, completely remove lids and wave the jars in the air to exchange the air inside the jars. Return lids to jars, tighten and return to refrigeration. After 4 weeks, you may begin to eat one marble sized piece once or twice every week. There are approximately 17 stages of bacterial developments. Airing the meat is required to progress the bacteria through the stages....."
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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

Bobi-p · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject:

ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

I've had some meat in a jar, twice ziplocked over the jar since December. I'm afraid to open it. I have to admit the smell makes me want to vomit and I have a very strong stomach. I was eating the stuff in December.. and started to avoid it in January because I couldn't take the smell. He recommends eating it outside btw. and plugging your nose... so that your house does not smell for the next 36 hours. Anyway I think my Grandmother (who was visiting at the time) wanted to get rid of it, I wouldn't let anyone throw it out so she actually would take the meat out of the jar and put it on a plate for me, outside on the balcony Laugh

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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

TidalPool · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject:

Hellistile · Hunter Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 242 Location: Canada

When it comes to depression, I was always prone to it, even more so after my stroke. I was on all sorts of anti-depressants. Low carb or very low carb completely cured my depression.

ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

It was truly the most awful thing I've ever ingested. Not because of the taste, but the smell. You've smelled a rotting corpse right....?
I'll admit to covering it in curry ketchup to get it down. It smothered the smell somewhat. When it's a little rotten it's not so bad, but the later stages... Puke

I think it's worth a go. Actually I'm considering it again, as I had forgotten about the depression aspect of it. Depression is such a saboteur to any positive change you're trying to make in your life. Some stinky meat is worth achieving some goals and feeling good about things.
_________________
"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

Lightfoot · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:48 am Post subject:

No thanks. I'll figure out another way. Puke

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Men...Rope 'em, Ride 'em, Release 'em

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TidalPool · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject:

Ummm... warning... very graphic... the above posts reminded me of this... you have been warned!!!!

http://www.stinkymeat.net/

Jessica

ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

Just doing some more research on depression, for my own benefit.. came across this article which was interesting. I'll post, post the website and continue in another post.
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Bipolar Disorder- The Fellowship of the Swings

by Janis Owens

Janis Owens is the award-winning author of MY BROTHER MICHAEL and MYRASIMS and THE SCHOOLING OF CLAYBIRD CATTS. A lifelong sufferer of various forms ofdepression, she lives in rural North Florida with her husband and threechildren.

Into the caldron of current treatments for depression let me throw a deceptively simple method of behavioral modification called Directed Thinking that is garnering its share of both praise and heated debate. I feel particularly qualified to wade into the argument since it has been years that I came out of the closet, so to speak, and publicly acknowledged my active membership in a quietly cohesive social movement: the Fellowship of the Depressed. Our ranks grow daily, and though we don't bother to print up a newsletter or sponsor Depression-Pride parades, we know who we are: we have radar.

We are able to immediately zero in on the telltale signs of depression in our friends and family: the bloated face, the listless eye, the quiet pool of despair, at church, at school, at Women's Retreats and Family Reunions. While our more cheerful counterparts sit in unfettered ease, discussing hair styles and the latest episode of The Sopranos, we side up to each other andquietly check on each other's progress; whether the short December nights are causing a resurgence of the old symptoms, whether we're sleeping; how another member of the Fellowship is faring at a new job, and oh, yes, the medications. Are you still on Prozac? How is the Serzone? Have you tried Buspar? Like most lifelong members of this Melancholy Firm, I know all of the medications, I read up on them with the enthusiasm that Englishmen follow the football scores, and not just the stagy new ones, the designer meds. I remember the olden days, the Age of the Tricyclic, when drugs like Lithium and Pamalor were the current wonder drugs, and four weeks of agonized waiting was the price you paid for medicated peace. Then came the Age of Prozac, and the all the others, the Serotonin Drugs, we call them in our Fellowship, not bothering to reel off their actual names, why bother? They' ll only change. We prefer to bunch them according to wider categories: the manic drugs; the Serotonin drugs; the Tricyclics; the anti-psychotics.

By now, we pretty much know their side-effects, their drawbacks. All the advertising campaigns in the world on the behalf of the giant pharmaceuticals can't change the fact that most of the "serotonins" are a bullet in the head of a good sex life, nor can they erase the reality ofdry-mouth or chronic constipation, or the weird aura of unreality of the muted life. In consequence, we sometimes turn to the holistic alternatives, and I often find myself standing in church these days, not discussing sermons or spiritual growth, but whether St. John's Wort actually works; why SamE is so doggone expensive, if it's safe to mix Xanax with Kava-kava. According to Popular Culture, to the wisdom of Dear Abby, of Phil and Oprah, we in the Fellowship have at least one great ally in our fight for sanity: psychiatry and psychology and all the various talk therapies. That's where every form of nonstandard behavior is eventually sent packing these days, from adolescent rebellion to bedwetting: go see a counselor. Talk to your shrink. Unfortunately, we in the Fellowship aren't too fond of licensed psychiatry, which in real life is truly light-years removed from the way it is portrayed in the modern media.

Here in the real world, if we're fortunate enough to have medical insurance that covers mental illness, it doesn't pay for top-dollar sessions with thoughtful, caring therapists of the Dr. Olivett variety on Law and Order, who show up mid-way in the show and after one insightful session, uncovers the seed of our unrest. In the Real World, we're most often shuffled off tounder funded community clinics, where our sadness is charted and numbered with a DSM diagnosis, then discussed for fifty minutes, then sent down the hall for a five minute consultation with an actual MD, who scribbles out a prescription for one of our old friends: Serzone or Prozac or Tregritol, or whatever new chemical combo doesn't have a history of making our hair fallout.

If the portrait I'm painting of Life in the Fellowship seems a little bleak, I should also point out that just lately, in the past half-dozen years, our image has taken an unexpectedly positive turn. Since the introduction of the new wonder drugs, mental illness in general and depression in particular has become little short of designer chic. Gone are the days when we hung our head in shame; when we hid our prescription vials in the back of the cabinet and hushed up adolescent suicide attempts. Now we are the de facto stars of a dozen new memoirs and studies: Prozac Diary, Listening to Prozac; Noonday Demon, to name a very few. These best-sellers chart in loving details fellow member's Herculean struggle to survive, and as it turns out, we - the worried, the medicated, the chronic fatalists - are the possessors of great sensitivity. We are not only morecreative and colorful and insightful than the non-members of our Fellowship, but we are in fact, genius. Or so says the likes of Patty Duke, Kay Redfield Jamison. We are touched by fire, cut from the same clothe as Mozart, Van Gogh, Winston Churchill. We may be bloated and sad and sexually restrained and medically constipated, but by God, we're special.

We take little solace in it.

What we in the Fellowship crave is happiness, laughter, normalcy. But, according to A. B. Curtiss, the creator of Directed Thinking and the author of DEPRESSION IS A CHOICE, "one of the reasons we (depressives) don't lift ourselves out of despair and hopelessness is because we have committed ourselves, unwittingly, to some pre-painted picture of how our life should be. And depression is not supposed to be part of the plan." When I came upon Curtiss' book in the mental health section of my local bookseller I'd pretty much taken a blood oath to never buy another book on depression again (otherwise my post-mortem library would consist of diet and depression books, which would depress my heirs.) But I was immediately intrigued by the flap copy, quietly filed between two of the depression-is-a-gift best-sellers, that didn't paint quite the merry picture of the Fellowship. There was no mention of genius, or gifted, but a lot of less flattering terms for our ailment, such as irresponsible, lazy.

Being a true depressive, who doesn't mind hearing a few home truths about myself (and infact, has been known to pay a therapist a hundred twenty dollars a pop to do so), I broke down and bought the book, and as it turns out, Curtiss, a cognitive behavioral therapist, is actually a card-carrying member of the Fellowship herself. Her book reads like a quirky tell-all memoir by Annie Lamott, beginning with her own wildly unstable childhood (thanks in large part to herfamily's susceptibility to manic depression), intermixed with observations on modern psychiatry, depression, medications. It's hard to exactly pin down Curtiss' political/social orientation; she sometimes comes across as a fundamentalist conservative (pro-Dr. Laura), and sometimes California New Age (has done time in the commune.) She never strays too far left or right, and probably the most extreme stance she takes on psychiatry is her steadfast rejection of the universally accepted ideathat depression is an organic disease of the brain, but rather a fixed way of thinking that keeps the sufferer trapped in the sub-basement of the mind, the subcortex.

Largely based on her own experiences as both patient and therapist, she rejects the current river of psychiatric medications, and instead, offers simple mental exercises wherein the depressive is able to sidetrack depression, a technique that she calls Directed Thinking. In practical terms, this means that when a depressive feels a wave of depression sinking in, or they're cornered by negative or fearful thoughts, they should simply take control of their mind by repeating some simple verse, such as row, row, row your boat, or any neutral phrase or word whichincessantly jumpstarts neuronal activity in the neocortex, while thought-jamming painful thoughts and thus sapping energy from the subcortex. In a nutshell, this is Curtiss' cure. It is simple but not always easy to do. The negative thought is always easier because it comes on its own, it is reactive (the mind being basically a defense mechanism). You have to choose a positive thought; be proactive.

In scientific terms, Directed Thinking is based on the neuroscientific fact that our feelings are all produced in the subcortex but we can't feel our feelings unless they are first received and acknowledged in the neocortex. People who experience tissue damage in the subcortex can lose the faculty of producing any feelings or emotion. These people are never depressed. Butpeople can also experience tissue damage in the neocortex in the place which receives the signals from the subcortex feelings and they will not be able to feel or experience the emotion they produce in the subcortex anymore than those who can't produce the subcortical feelings in the first place. These people don't get depressed either.

Instead of zapping feelings with drugs or electro-shock at the site of subcortex, Directed Thinking by- passes and thought-jams the cognitive focus on them at the site of the neocortex until the chemical balance in the subcortex shifts out of anxious to more normal. These explanations in the book come along with old-fashioned advice of the sort that you usually hearfrom a doting grandmother; things like the importance of exercise and self-responsibility; the dangers of passivity and blame.

So simple was the cure that as a card-carrying member of the Fellowship, when I first read it, I admit to a fair amount of skepticism. I mean, at forty-two, I've been around long enough to have endured my share of fads -primal scream and recovered memory are two that come immediately to mind. I approach miracle cures with a jaded eye and read along warily till abouthalf way through the book when I had the opportunity to implement Directed Thinking in a way that made me sit up and take notice.

I was laying on my couch in the middle of a overcast December afternoon, one of those endlessdays in an endless week when you constantly check the clock, counting down the hours to sunset, when a wave of pure dread rolled over me. With the book in hand, it occurred to me that this was the perfect opportunity to test the theory of DT, and instead of giving into the dread, I challenged it with a small, hopeful thought: "How quickly the days pass."

That was about all I could come up with at the time, something I usually think on bright summer mornings when I'm watching my children play in the pool. But it was something; when you are depressed your neocortex is not optimally gear-engaged, which is why Curtiss suggests you decide upon a neutral phrase ahead of time. The author herself, when she first tried hertheory at a moment of dire extremity could come up with nothing better than "green frog." So I stuck with my little phrase, even repeated it several times as I read, and do you know, just like that, just that easily, the cloud of dread passed, replaced by a less threatening emotion: a smallregret that the hours and days passed so quickly.

It was enough of a reaction that I read Curtiss' book with even more interest, and though my onsets of depression are seldom as abrupt as the ones she describes, I have gotten into the habit of challenging negative thoughts, of never sitting still when I have tasks at hand, of in short,gaining a measure of mastery of my own life. After months of practicing Directed Thinking, I've even successfully (and under a doctor's supervision) weaned myself from anti-depressants and anti-anxieties, both, and with little of the usual rebound depression. For me, this simple, unglamorous cure is working.

And how do my fellow sufferers in the Fellowship react to my newfound freedom, my notable success? To tell you the truth, I don't tell them. Why? A case in point. At my local library I was picking up books for my children and told the librarian -- a nice woman, very bright -- I wasn't getting my usual stack of reading material because I was spending my spare time writing an article about abook.

Naturally she wanted to know the book, and when I said, "Oh, it's not fiction, but by a psychotherapist in California, called DEPRESSION IS A CHOICE --"Well, that's about as far as I got before this well-read, kindly woman drew herself up to her full 5'2", eyes flashing, asked, "Depression is a what?" I knew I was in hot water and tried to explain, but she jumped right inthere, told me in no uncertain terms how she had been depressed all her life and let me tell you, it wasn't a choice. She was so militant that it was pointless to argue; I just said my good-byes, and thought: how closely we clutch the chains that bind us.

I had breached an unwritten rule of the club: when you're off medications and espousing a cure that is actually anti-medication, you don't rub it in. I think the reasoning behind this iron-clad rule is that depressives are so guilt-plagued already, for not being happy enough, or successful enough, ornormal enough, that one should feel a real reluctance to add to their guilt-load by insinuating that depression isn't an organic disease, as all the books and pamphlets and doctors have been assuring us for years.

Also, Curtiss tells us that depressed people avoid the positive; they actually seek the negative. She cites a 1998 Journal of Abnormal Psychology report that states "people with depression do what people with high esteem do; they look for confirmation of their own self-views in order to maintain or restore feelings of prediction and control. Unfortunately, because depressed people tend to possess negative self-views, seeking feedback that confirms thoseviews produces the added and unwanted effect of maintaining their depression."

So you can see why I hesitate to go around helpfully recommending the book to my depressed friends, and why word-of-mouth will work very slowly to boost this author's sales. But I am delighted that in a world of increasing passivity and blame shifting, maybe even we in the Fellowship - sad and besieged and usually compassionate to a fault -- have been given anothergleam of light; a tool to regain the mastery of our very precious lives.
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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

oh forgot the site, here it is:http://www.depressionisachoice.com/essays/swings.htm

Anyway, I found her exercise very very interesting...
I've had many many nights (with PPD) where I could not sleep and the "thoughts" would just overwhelm me, like they were being poured on or sprayed at me incessantly from all directions. Recently the only thing I've found to "distract" me from those thoughts/memories/feelings was to repeat a stupid song or phrase over and over and over. It felt so silly and dumb but it worked and I had never thought about it afterward. I just did it, focusing on the words/tune and that was that. Writing about this now I can see it is actually something I've been doing for years in various stages of my life!!
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"Man lives on one quarter of what he eats. On the other three quarters lives his doctor."

Lightfoot · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject:

Glad you've found something that works. Smile

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My body is a temple; on your knees

Carolyn · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:12 am Post subject:

I've found that repeating a mantra (such as HU) can help me get to sleep when the thoughts keep coming.

Meg, do you have Aajonus' We Want to Live? he has several pages on how to treat depression with high meat being one of the suggestions.

ReddyMcMeaty · The Boss Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 5776

LOOPS · Top Cat Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 457 Location: CHILE

Not to hark on about magnesium AGAIN - but it really helped my depression and insomnia. All you have to do is take a little Mg tablet every day and voila. Well - it might not work but it's cheap and seems to work for a huge amount of people.

About the serotonin theory - I was reading Lights Out and it claims that depression is not due to too little serotonin, but too much - and too little dopamine (both are opposing). This is very interesting. I have found that after a number of months on low carb that my depression is pretty much gone - or very low-grade anyway. Initially I was all topsy-turvy and dreaded it getting worse - but it seems that once the old bod has settled down it goes away a bit.

Or it could just be my Mg supplementation - I'll never know. One thing is for sure though - it's not carbs that are making me happy these days. And I was pretty sure I was bipolar at one point. Most of my family are extreme like that.

I even read that lots of saturated fat was bad for bipolars - crap to that. My moods are definitely more stable with more.

Loops

LOOPS · Top Cat Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 457 Location: CHILE

I forgot to add that I have been through the ENTIRE range of supplements designed to help depressed anxious people. This list included 5htp. Guess what - 5htp is a precursor to serotonin, and you know this stuff actually made me MORE depressed. Great for anxiety, but that's all. I was so tired all the time I was on it and VERY antisocial. Just wanted to hide away the whole time.

However - I wouldn't go the other way and take tyrosine or phenylalanine - in fact I wouldn't take any isolated amino acid in excess. These two aminos are precursors to dopamine and you get enough from meat - any more and it seems to upset some sort of balance - for me anyway.

I totally sympathize with anyone suffering from anxiety or depression. I think low-carb was the best thing I did though for this.

Loops

Dean · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 1142

LOOPS,

Thanks for posting this.

I too find that if I stick with animal food (close as possible to zero carb)... my moods are much more stable... my anxiety is under check... and I am not depressed, nor do I worry much. When doing carbs, I get into a real screwed up mental space. I am moving closer and closer to zero carb all the time. I even think IF is a good thing as well.
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bleublonde · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:31 am Post subject:

GoatHerder · Newbie Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 4

Hi everyone, I am new here. I have read a few articles on how having plenty of bacteria in the body and comin gin contact with the littles guys often will help with deppresion....it is used to explain why some people become less depressed when working with soil(gardening). This is why aajonus says that high meat is helpful.Here is an example:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/m...l=/news/2007/04/02/ndepress02.xml

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